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#3017063 - 02/04/13 02:42 PM
Golden-Doodle question...
Meat-Run Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 2564
Loc: Any town U.S.A.
Little over a year ago I put my yellow lab Deuce down after 14 years and now the "fam" want/found a Golden-Doodle to add to the family. This time the wife decided to purchase this dog and it's going to be the "family" dog but with hunting traits to it. Can some one with personal experience give me some kind of history on these dogs? Heard that they're good hunters, retrievers, and wonderful family pets and don't shed hair but whats there demeanor? Aren't poodles kind of high strung and what can I expect with hip and joint issues with these dogs. Sorry for all the questions but I want another mans point of view, either way its coming home on the 23rd but want to REALLY know what I'm in for.

Thanks for any help or personal experiences with these dogs.

MR

Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit"
-Vincent Lombardi
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#3017080 - 02/04/13 03:03 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: Meat-Run]
LABS4ME Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 5390
Loc: Cottage Grove , MN USA
Have 3 friends with doodles. I think they are all labradoodles... all ugly if you ask me! But what do I know? Their wives had to have them...

They do shed, albeit less than a lab. Two do not hunt at all, they tried to hunt them, but got little out of them. The third hunts a little... more nature walking and try to sneak in and steal a retrieve on occassion. With that said, all three did little more than throw some bumpers in the back yard and take them hunting to try and get some instincts to kick in. All three had had hunting dogs prior, but for the most part, they were self trained and did OK for non-trained dogs. they had waaaaay too much expectation to think that their new compadres would just hunt out of the chute... one is so stupid he'd take naps in the road... got hit by a car... so now he's a gimpydoodle.

With that said, I have no idea what was used for these dog's parentage. I think a lot of the 'du jour' dogs are just any ol' two dogs from there respective breed thrown together. I have not heard of any doodle breeder making a push to make hunting dogs.

I'd think with some effort you can 'train' them to be a hunter, but I'd keep my expectations low and let it surprise you if it does a decent job...

Good Luck!

Ken

FishingMinnesota Sponsors

..."The best long range shotgun load to have in one's boat for mallards is a fine retriever."

Nash Buckingham
Field and Stream 1947
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#3017091 - 02/04/13 03:12 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: LABS4ME]
mabr Offline

Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 1287
Loc: DouglasCounty
Originally Posted By: LABS4ME
one is so stupid he'd take naps in the road... got hit by a car... so now he's a gimpydoodle.


Now thats funny i dont care who you are. LOL
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#3017093 - 02/04/13 03:12 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: LABS4ME]
Meat-Run Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 2564
Loc: Any town U.S.A.
Thanks Labs. I've lowered my expectations since this dog is more for the family then hunting. I may sound a little uncommitted but with my past dog I was the Vet, dog chaser, [PoorWordUsage] scooper, feeder, enforcer, trainer, etc. so you can get the idea that I'm going to be shifting most of the duties to the other 3/4 of the family...lets just hope its not a handful.

They're all cute at a young age but what puppy isn't, right!? whistle

mr

Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit"
-Vincent Lombardi
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#3017141 - 02/04/13 03:57 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: Meat-Run]
Todd Caswell Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 1069
Loc: Brainerd, MN
I'm with Labs on this one. Have known 3 labdoodles and one goldendoodles. 3 of them have tried to train as gun dogs and one is just a pet. Non of them have made it as gun dogs and none of them are very bright,2 of them flunked out of beginer OB classes, and all of them shed, as far as I can tell just as much as any of my labs, I recently did a job at a labdoodle owners house and my socks were covered when I left. And yes they may have been cute as puppy's but gew up to look like shaggy unkept flatcoats.

I know you asked what to exspect, and I have no idea and I don't believe the breeder could tell you either. I have nothing against mixbreeds ( our next pet dog will come from the shelter) but this is what I ask people when they tell me there getting a doodle. Why would anyone pay double for a mix breed desinger dog when you could get a nicely breed lab or golden with helath clearences, and a proven pedigree for half the price?

The three labdoodles thet I know of the owners got robbed for over $1000.00 one was $1300.00.

Good luck..
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#3017165 - 02/04/13 04:20 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: Todd Caswell]
Meat-Run Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 2564
Loc: Any town U.S.A.
I know that labdoodles are way different then goldendoodles, I've heard the same about the labdoodles shedding but allot less with the goldens. Smarts I think is all in the genes but I do like the idea of a smaller dog, less shedding, and no oily coat like my old lab.

mr

Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit"
-Vincent Lombardi
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#3017178 - 02/04/13 04:35 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: Meat-Run]
Todd Caswell Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 1069
Loc: Brainerd, MN
Originally Posted By: Meat-Run
I know that labdoodles are way different then goldendoodles, I've heard the same about the labdoodles shedding but allot less with the goldens. Smarts I think is all in the genes but I do like the idea of a smaller dog, less shedding, and no oily coat like my old lab.

mr



Hmm have had 7 different labs and none of them had an oily coat. Shinny and sleek but not oily. Where does the smaller dog come into play? Isn't the poodle side a full size poodle and the golden a standard size golden? If so I would guess the females would run 45 to 60 pounds and the males 55 to 70 . Similar to both breed standards.
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#3017203 - 02/04/13 05:04 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: Meat-Run]
Bryce Online   content
Sr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 02/07/01
Posts: 2232
Loc: South Shakopee
Sorry but my experience with a goldendoodle is similar to Labs and Todd. Hair everywhere and lucky to hunt up a hot dog in a phone booth. No oil in my labs either. Sure it wasn't a Chessie mix? Size will depend on the parents. My female labs are running ~55 pounds. Pour in some rocket fuel and let em go.

IBOT's #17 & #248

7 > 5
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#3017609 - 02/05/13 07:36 AM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: Bryce]
JONOV Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 04/12/12
Posts: 84
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Not to hijack the thread, but most of the doodles I've known were standing behind the door when brains were handed out. Wonderfully nice creatures though. Why do they tend to be dumb? Most labs I've met are bright animals, most Golden's are bright animals, and poodles are supposedly smarter than both of them...It doesn't make sense
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#3017668 - 02/05/13 08:36 AM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: JONOV]
LABS4ME Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 5390
Loc: Cottage Grove , MN USA
And for that reasoning to be accurate, breeders of 'doodle dogs du jour' would have to seek out the 'best' of the 2 breeds that they want to throw together to make doodle puppies. Not happening! They find an AKC lab, golden etc (registered as a purebred is meaningless as you are creating a mixed breed anyways) bred to an AKC poodle (meaningless) and doodle breed.

My guess you'll have zero titled dogs in any working category (ie: field, obedience, agility) in a four genration pedigree in a doodle puppy. Does not surprise me that they have nothing but mash potatoes for gray matter... The doodle breeder's only objective is to create doodle puppies to get oodle money. Todd is correct, the amount of money people spend on these dogs is astounding! You can buy cream of the crop sporting puppies for what you pay for a doodle...

There is nothing in my mind that is compelling enough to warrant the purchase of these dogs other than they are a craze. You have no idea what you are going to end up with. The hypo-allergenic thing is not accurate, intelligence? well that is subjective but I have not witnessed it to date, but they generally are amiable dogs. I hear the argument all the time from people not wanting to get a dog from the shelter because they do not know what they will be getitng... especially with a mixed breed, same dump shoot going on in the doodle world. You do not know what the end breeding will be. Some buyers think they are actually buying a 'breed' of a dog when they get doodlized....

Hard to generalize an intelligence level of a well bred lab, golden and poodle and apply this generality to a 'doodle' when you are not starting out the breeding with 'well bred'. I have looked a pedigree of a friend's doodle... all AKC registered on each side... no titled dogs. For all he knows there are 4 generations of puppy mill dogs. The breeder flaunted the pedigrees as proof she was creating 'good' dogs and not using unregistered dogs... what's the difference? Registration means nothing in terms of quality.

Good Luck!

Ken

FishingMinnesota Sponsors

..."The best long range shotgun load to have in one's boat for mallards is a fine retriever."

Nash Buckingham
Field and Stream 1947
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#3017682 - 02/05/13 08:45 AM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: LABS4ME]
LABS4ME Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 5390
Loc: Cottage Grove , MN USA
No offence MR... I get the wife and kid thing! Not trying to rain on your parade and I hope that your doodle is a smart dog that picks up training and gives you years of use, both as a pet and hunting partner. I am only pointing out many difficencies that are very wide spread in the doodle world.

Had the same issue years back with the family. I told them if they wanted a house dog that they can spoil and love up, it still needed to be a sporting breed that was well bred. We settled on a Field Bred American Cocker. It was a bugger getting a puppy as there are only a small handful of breeders still breeding old school true American Cockers... but I ended up with an intelligent family dog that loves and is able to hunt! Everyone who comes in contact with this dog loves him and wants one. Sometimes the power of persuassion is important in family politics! Everyone can have their cake and eat it too!

Good Luck!

Ken

FishingMinnesota Sponsors

..."The best long range shotgun load to have in one's boat for mallards is a fine retriever."

Nash Buckingham
Field and Stream 1947
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#3017736 - 02/05/13 09:42 AM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: LABS4ME]
Greybeard53 Offline
HSOList.com Family

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 215
Loc: South Central MN
Meat-Run,
The variation in golden doodles is much larger than some of the cookie cutter breeds and that makes it really difficult to generalize. Are there dumb golden doodles? Sure. Are there stupid Labs. Yep.
Just spend as much time as you can with the dog, and you may end up with a great dog.
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#3017862 - 02/05/13 11:50 AM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: Greybeard53]
vpj Offline
Hello I'm New

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3
Loc: mn
Meat run, I can give you my experience. The family got a male golden doodle 2 1/2 years ago. He is a family pet first and my hunting buddy second. He is 60 pounds and does not shed much, if at all. He has been raised with two kids, 5 and 7 years olds now. The temperment is good, he is not hyper and pretty intelligent. He does think he is a lap dog which gets a little old sometimes. He loves the water and will retrieve his dummy off the dock as long as we can throw it. He picked up on potty training, sit and stay commands pretty quick. This was pretty amazing as I am not a dog trainer and was learning as much as he was.
I had him trained for basic obedience and hunting. He is really good on pheasants. I have had him to game farms and on wild birds in MN and SD. We have hunted with german shorthairs, weimeraners, springers and labs. He has held his own with each of them. I did shave him before hunting season. The burrs, mud and tangles were easier to take care of with short hair.
He won't win any titles or big field trials, but I have the best pal and hunting buddy I could hope for. I am sure if his owner was a better trainer and could spend more time hunting, he could be really great. I may be biased with that last statement, but I am proud of my mutt! I hope my ramblings will help you out. If you have any other questions or would like to know more, please let me know.
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#3018058 - 02/05/13 03:28 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: vpj]
Meat-Run Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 2564
Loc: Any town U.S.A.
VPJ welcome to HSO!!!! Thank you for sharing your experience thats exactly what I was asking for, one mans opinion that actually owns one or has been around one long enough to give there .02.

Labs & Todd,
thank you very much for you advice its good to hear some strong opinions regarding this mix even though you're very bias to labs, please don't take that the wrong way. If I couldn't handle the opinions I wouldn't have asked the question. That being said I'm currently looking for work and as I sit here right now I have nothing but time to train, mold and get this little puppy on the right track. My wish for a new dog was one we could have in the house, maybe even a lap dog, and some hunting genes. I personally know of two friends that have one and in the past have had labs and hands down was a better family dog. Not to do a VS. debate that's not what this post was about but I'm expecting to get something way on the other side of good pedigree and hope for the best, with time on my hands I expect this to be a wonderful dog for all to enjoy, again thank you all for your help.

Regards,
MR

Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit"
-Vincent Lombardi
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#3018116 - 02/05/13 04:39 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: Meat-Run]
LABS4ME Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 5390
Loc: Cottage Grove , MN USA
MR,

Good Luck on your journey! Hope the new little fella ends up being the bewst dog you ever owned. I know a trialer who force fetched his wife's Maltese... a farmer buddy has a German Shepard that is an awesome pheasant flusher and tracker... just won't pick them up. SOOOO, in the end half of what you get out of them is what you put into them... the other half is what comes with them...

VPJ...welcome, thanks for chiming in. I have read a couple of stories about laradoodles hunting... never witnessed it, but figured there has to be some. Glad you have a goldendoodle and were able to give an honest first hand account! Chime in here from time to time if you will...

Good Luck!

Ken

FishingMinnesota Sponsors

..."The best long range shotgun load to have in one's boat for mallards is a fine retriever."

Nash Buckingham
Field and Stream 1947
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#3018175 - 02/05/13 05:52 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: LABS4ME]
CrewJones Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/02/11
Posts: 422
Loc: Sherburne
Im sure you'll have the same good luck as we did.
we got our Labradoole "lucy" 4 years ago I did tons of research as I am very allergic to dogs. First generation labradooles or goldendooles will shed or at least genetically 3/4 will shed and 1/4 should not not. All dogs do lose hair though, I do the floors (wood) every 2 weeks and rarely is there much hair, seems about the same as my wife as far as shedding goes....
When i purchased her the seller claimed she was an L2B labradoodle or Two labradooles that had the poodle coat (non shedding) so picture if you would a pure bread doodle. Now do I believe this... yes and no some times I feel our dog is 100% poodle but she does have lab traits and tendencies, with minimal hair loss and no allergic reactions.
I would agree most doodles look a bit mixed everyone is different because they are mixed. I got our doodle in Brainerd you can PM me if you want the info she was 750 at the time which seemed fair. I have been very happy with her. The haircuts are expensive but we chose this person to do the cuts we trust so its part of the cost of owing the breed .
Hunting... yeah right the second lucy jumps in the woods we have 10 minutes of picking burrs out of her coat. I guess you could shave the dog or oil the furr but both seem crazy to me. I guess maybe for duck hunting they love to swim and are very smart. I taught her everything with in the first couple months we owned her. Its only because of my laziness that she is not more proficient with things. She does sit, down, and roll over no problem, other than that she'll fetch till your arm falls off and then swim for 3 hours.
If you do the research and you want a true non shedding dog a poodle is your only 100% shot of a non shedding dog. but the coat is a bit more course IMO than the mix. Everyone has there own opinions this is mine. I grew up with boxers so the doodle is just a much more use full and fun dog.






Edited by CrewJones (02/05/13 05:54 PM)
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#3018184 - 02/05/13 06:08 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: LABS4ME]
Todd Caswell Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 1069
Loc: Brainerd, MN
Second what labs said, I have hunted over and known many mixed breeds that have done well in the field, I buy and train field bred labs because of the games I like to play. As I have stated befor I have nothing against mix breeds, but most of theses desinger breeders don't have a clue and breed for the money rather than breeding for the purpose of improving the breed. I put these people in the same catagory as puppy mill breeders..

One final question for you, did either of the parents have there health clearences eye's , hips CNM EIC ect. ?
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#3018189 - 02/05/13 06:17 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: CrewJones]
Todd Caswell Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 1069
Loc: Brainerd, MN
Originally Posted By: CrewJones
Im sure you'll have the same good luck as we did.
we got our Labradoole "lucy" 4 years ago I did tons of research as I am very allergic to dogs. First generation labradooles or goldendooles will shed or at least genetically 3/4 will shed and 1/4 should not not. All dogs do lose hair though, I do the floors (wood) every 2 weeks and rarely is there much hair, seems about the same as my wife as far as shedding goes....
When i purchased her the seller claimed she was an L2B labradoodle or Two labradooles that had the poodle coat (non shedding) so picture if you would a pure bread doodle. Now do I believe this... yes and no some times I feel our dog is 100% poodle but she does have lab traits and tendencies, with minimal hair loss and no allergic reactions.
I would agree most doodles look a bit mixed everyone is different because they are mixed. I got our doodle in Brainerd you can PM me if you want the info she was 750 at the time which seemed fair. I have been very happy with her. The haircuts are expensive but we chose this person to do the cuts we trust so its part of the cost of owing the breed .
Hunting... yeah right the second lucy jumps in the woods we have 10 minutes of picking burrs out of her coat. I guess you could shave the dog or oil the furr but both seem crazy to me. I guess maybe for duck hunting they love to swim and are very smart. I taught her everything with in the first couple months we owned her. Its only because of my laziness that she is not more proficient with things. She does sit, down, and roll over no problem, other than that she'll fetch till your arm falls off and then swim for 3 hours.
If you do the research and you want a true non shedding dog a poodle is your only 100% shot of a non shedding dog. but the coat is a bit more course IMO than the mix. Everyone has there own opinions this is mine. I grew up with boxers so the doodle is just a much more use full and fun dog.







Don't be spreading rummers that there are people in my home town that are doing this kind of thing, always though this was a metro thing.
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#3018197 - 02/05/13 06:23 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: LABS4ME]
blackdog1101 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 1250
Loc: Lake Minnetonka
Labradoodles and Goldendoodles were originally bred to be service dogs for the handicapped. A true "doodle" does not shed. At all. Zero. Any "doodle" that sheds was not properly bred. They are from many generations of carefully planned breeding, not just someone who decided to breed a lab or golden with a poodle.

Yes, we own a labradoodle for our handicapped son. I'm highly prejudiced, I think they are incredible dogs. I would never have guessed how intelligent and intuitive they are. I swear our dog knows what my son is going to do before he does. Our labradoodle cost $2500 from a breeder in VA.

Having said all this, I am not surprised that a "doodle" would not be a good hunter. Most of those traits wouold have been selectively bred out of them.

"Be careful where you fish, who you fish with, and what you catch."

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#3018209 - 02/05/13 06:33 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: blackdog1101]
Todd Caswell Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 1069
Loc: Brainerd, MN
Originally Posted By: blackdog1101
Labradoodles and Goldendoodles were bred to be service dogs for the handicapped. A true "doodle" does not shed. At all. Zero. Any "doodle" that sheds was not properly bred. A true "doodle" will set you back about $2000 or so. They are from many generations of carefully planned breeding, not just someone who decided to breed a lab or golden with a poodle.

Yes, we own a labradoodle for our handicapped son. I'm highly prejudiced, I think they are incredible dogs. I would never have guessed how intelligent and intuitive they are. I swear our dog knows what my son is going to do before he does.

Having said all this, I am not surprised that a "doodle" would not be a good hunter. Most of those traits wouold have been selectively bred out of them.



Blackdog,

How long has this mix ( can't call it a breed) been purposly bred for? I haven't paid alot of attention but I was think 15 or so years? Could be wrong. From your research and experience was the breeding more for the non shedding or the smarts? Just wondering because I see Goldens and labs every day doing wonderful jobs as service dogs, only reason I can see to mix the two would possibly be for the chance that they may not shed.

I would guess all dogs shed to some degree, I shed , you shed, I just find it hard to believe that a dog doesn't shed AT ALL.
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#3018220 - 02/05/13 06:46 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: Todd Caswell]
blackdog1101 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 1250
Loc: Lake Minnetonka
You are correct about the shedding. I probably over-stated the point. Yes, when I brush him I get hair in the brush. But doodles have hair, not fur. Hair does not shed like fur does. I would say the loss of hair in doodles is similar to the loss of hair in a young healthy human.

According to Wikipedia, they have been around since 1955, having first been bred in Victoria, Australia. They became more popular in 1988 when they began to be used as guide dogs in Australia for blind people who were allergic to normal dogs.

"Be careful where you fish, who you fish with, and what you catch."

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#3018224 - 02/05/13 06:47 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: Todd Caswell]
blackdog1101 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 1250
Loc: Lake Minnetonka
BTW, our dog looks very similar to yours. Chocolate coat.

"Be careful where you fish, who you fish with, and what you catch."

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#3018228 - 02/05/13 06:56 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: blackdog1101]
Todd Caswell Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 1069
Loc: Brainerd, MN
Originally Posted By: blackdog1101
You are correct about the shedding. I probably over-stated the point. Yes, when I brush him I get hair in the brush. But doodles have hair, not fur. Hair does not shed like fur does. I would say the loss of hair in doodles is similar to the loss of hair in a young healthy human.

According to Wikipedia, they have been around since 1955, having first been bred in Victoria, Australia. They became more popular in 1988 when they began to be used as guide dogs in Australia for blind people who were allergic to normal dogs.





Quote:
Surprisingly enough, there is no actual difference between hair and fur. Though unique to mammals, they are chemically indistinguishable and are made of keratin, giving them the same chemical make-up as skin, feathers, and nails.

The purpose of hair and fur seems to be the same, no matter the host. Many animals couldn't live without its insulating qualities, and many humans appreciate a warmer head, thanks to their hair. Often, hair serves as protection against injury. An excellent example of this is the thick coat of fur around a lion's neck. This mane will make it very difficult for his enemies to wound him, especially as big cats and other carnivores often go for the throat when hunting. In addition to this, fur can further serve to carry a scent that can vary in purpose from species to species. Although much of the hair that grows on human bodies seems unnecessary, most believe that it has slowly decreased over time, along with humans' need for it.

The primary difference between hair and fur, it turns out, is word usage. People generally refer to non-human mammals as having fur, while humans are said to have hair, but there are a few exceptions. When an animal has very coarse or sparse fur, as in the case of a pig or elephant, people usually call it hair. Similarly, a cat or other animal without fur is referred to as "hairless" or even "naked."


Edited by Todd Caswell (02/05/13 06:58 PM)
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#3018667 - 02/06/13 09:56 AM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: Todd Caswell]
blackdog1101 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 1250
Loc: Lake Minnetonka
Good information Todd, I stand corrected. I found this info on the Wikipedia page for Poodles, which verifies your information:

Quote:
"Unlike most dogs which have double coats, poodles have a single layer coat (no undercoat) composed of dense, curly fur[13] that sheds minimally.[14] They could be considered hypoallergenic (though not completely allergen free).[15][16] The poodle does shed, but instead of the fur coming off the dog, it becomes tangled in the surrounding hair. This can lead to matting without proper care."


I was mistaking the double coat most dogs have with "fur" (hard overcoat) and "hair" (soft undercoat).

"Be careful where you fish, who you fish with, and what you catch."

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#3033728 - 02/25/13 07:40 PM
Re: Golden-Doodle question... [Re: blackdog1101]
Meat-Run Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 2564
Loc: Any town U.S.A.
Well just and update to my original post. On Saturday we brought home our new family member, Piper, a 8 week old female. She's so adorable and has a wonderful demeanor that I'm very impressed with, this will change with age I'm sure but nothing like any lab or GS that I've seen at the same age.





Meat Run

Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit"
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