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#2997838 - 01/15/13 09:10 AM
Fish house frame info anyone?
2toysup Offline
Hello I'm New

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Isanti
I am looking to do a build (8.5 X 18 w/v-front) from the ground up. Anyone have info on plans for a tandem frame with hydraulics? What rams are used with what pumps? Any pump assemblies out there that I haven't been able to find? I like Ice Assaults setup, but I really enjoy doing and making things with my own two hands. I have located Timbren axle-less system that I will be incorporating into my setup.

I have found nothing with any frame/hydraulic info. Once we start, the build will be posted on here to help others. I have gained a lot of insight from Little Ripper Guy's build threads and would like to pass on my info as well.

If it aint broke, modify it.
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#2997852 - 01/15/13 09:22 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: 2toysup]
tonkapat Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 666
Loc: West Metro
one option is to use jacks on the corners of the house instead of hydraulic cylinders on the wheel assemblies. This also allows for more width on the interior of the house between the wheel wells as the hydraulic assemblies are mounted inside the wheels. I would guess a much cheaper and easier option also.

Electric jacks have a hand crank backup so maybe a little more security over a hydro system.
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#2997865 - 01/15/13 09:39 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: 2toysup]
Lip_Ripper Guy Offline
Sr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 2126
Loc: South Metro
Welcome!

I took a look at this axle-less setup...how do you plan to make these drop down? I'm having trouble visualizing.

For what it's worth I know 3 people who have built their own hydraulic frames. I don't think any of them would do it again, from the sound of it.

I can certainly appreciate wanting to build it from the ground up. I gave it some consideration, talked with the guys who have built their own, looked at a lot of frames, put together a detailed materials list, etc. My dad is a life long welder, so welding it would't be an issue. At best I was able to find about $700 in savings, and that is without any 'mishaps' or material overages (which there would have been). There is a lot that goes into building a tandem hydraulic setup that works properly, tracks straight, and will last the life of the house. There are a lot of ways I'd personally rather save that $700 on a $20k fish house. Not trying to discourage, just passing along my thoughts!
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#2997996 - 01/15/13 11:31 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: Lip_Ripper Guy]
2toysup Offline
Hello I'm New

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Isanti
My setup that I am starting to draw up is very similar to the one you have on your recent build I think. Ice Assault Frame? The arms that go from the square tube to the tire would have these mounted for suspension. Just haven't had much design experience with hydraulics. I used to be a mechanical drafter for 6 years prior to becoming a general contractor. Maybe I am missing something here but how is hydraulic so different from cable/winch, other than pushing a button vs. cranking? I too am in the process of comparing costs, pre-fab vs. me-fab cool

If it aint broke, modify it.
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#2998005 - 01/15/13 11:35 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: 2toysup]
gvt Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 122
Loc: Maple Grove, MN
I checked the Timbren Axle-less product on a youtube. That is one cool product. I could see that incorporated into a manual or hydraulic system. On a typical manual crank frame it could be mounted to the arm that typically has the spindle and leaf spring. This may be a much smoother riding and more durable option. Cool stuff...you got my thinking!!!
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#2998028 - 01/15/13 11:52 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: gvt]
2toysup Offline
Hello I'm New

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Isanti
Originally Posted By: gvt
I checked the Timbren Axle-less product on a youtube. That is one cool product. I could see that incorporated into a manual or hydraulic system. On a typical manual crank frame it could be mounted to the arm that typically has the spindle and leaf spring. This may be a much smoother riding and more durable option. Cool stuff...you got my thinking!!!


Other than being a more expensive option it would work a lot better.

If it aint broke, modify it.
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#2998141 - 01/15/13 01:23 PM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: 2toysup]
Lip_Ripper Guy Offline
Sr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 2126
Loc: South Metro
Gotcha. I think I know what you mean, and the Fish House Store used to have a tandem setup like I am visualizing. You may be able to find pictures online if you look hard enough.

I know nothing about hydraulic design, so I can't help you there, unfortunately.

The two reasons I do hydraulics are convenience, and speed. It takes 15 seconds for me to have the house up and be driving to my next spot, and 15 seconds to set down on the new spot. It's faster than a portable and on the days when we move 5 or 6 times it saves a lot of time and energy. Winches are a good setup, just not for me.
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#2998147 - 01/15/13 01:26 PM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: Lip_Ripper Guy]
Lip_Ripper Guy Offline
Sr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 2126
Loc: South Metro
Found it. Search Google Images for "Fish House Store" (in quotes) and you'll see a couple pictures of the tandem setup. Is that similar to what you are thinking? Minus the leaf spring, of course.
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#2998243 - 01/15/13 03:20 PM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: Lip_Ripper Guy]
2toysup Offline
Hello I'm New

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Isanti
Refer to pics below. This pic is from ice assault center section. The timbren mount will be mounted to the arm where the wheel is attached. Not sure how ice assault did there suspension but this is the best way I can see of doing it.

If it aint broke, modify it.
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#2998430 - 01/15/13 06:08 PM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: 2toysup]
gvt Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 122
Loc: Maple Grove, MN
Nice sketch! That's what I was seeing. Sure seems like a better option than an improperly installed leaf spring!!! I've been considering adding electric jacks and doing away with the winches on my house. This is going on the to-do list.
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#2998480 - 01/15/13 06:53 PM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: 2toysup]
Lip_Ripper Guy Offline
Sr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 2126
Loc: South Metro
So what is the benefit to the Timbren over the torsion axle of the Ice Assault or Berkon frames?
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#2998499 - 01/15/13 07:09 PM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: gvt]
birdswacker Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 456
Loc: wyoming mn us
I got rid of the cables in my house and put a tongue jack in with flat plate no wheel. I bolted 2 on into the inside behind the wheel wells. I think they work slick no more cable dump.
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#2998546 - 01/15/13 07:34 PM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: Lip_Ripper Guy]
gvt Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 122
Loc: Maple Grove, MN
No advantage over hydraulic. But on the typical manual frame it sure seems like it has potential. I'm thinking it would ride much better than my leaf-spring-on-a-stick! It also seems like there is potential for retro-fitting an existing manual frame. It'll be cool to see if someone applies it.
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#2998614 - 01/15/13 08:19 PM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: gvt]
slurpie Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 839
Loc: minnesota
Buy the frame and build the rest. Buying the frame from a good dealer it will go straight down the road that is huge. Unless you can guarantee your self built house to do that just buy the frame.

Catching big fish and releasing them
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#2998732 - 01/16/13 12:34 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: gvt]
2toysup Offline
Hello I'm New

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Isanti
Originally Posted By: gvt
Nice sketch! That's what I was seeing. Sure seems like a better option than an improperly installed leaf spring!!! I've been considering adding electric jacks and doing away with the winches on my house. This is going on the to-do list.


Fyi, I bought an electric jack for my camper from harbor freight for around 110.00. Check them for price, they were the best when I was looking.

If it aint broke, modify it.
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#2998733 - 01/16/13 12:41 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: Lip_Ripper Guy]
2toysup Offline
Hello I'm New

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Isanti
Originally Posted By: Lip_Ripper Guy
So what is the benefit to the Timbren over the torsion axle of the Ice Assault or Berkon frames?


Timber is available. I have not found a torsion setup that is readily available. All of the version setups I have found have a much shorter arm that the spindle mounts to. Other than that both setups are great.

If it aint broke, modify it.
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#2998778 - 01/16/13 06:14 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: 2toysup]
aczr2k Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 687
Loc: On a lake
Doesn't Ice Assault just sell the "tandem wheel section" that you can add to your frame?
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#2998839 - 01/16/13 07:31 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: aczr2k]
Lip_Ripper Guy Offline
Sr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 2126
Loc: South Metro
Originally Posted By: aczr2k
Doesn't Ice Assault just sell the "tandem wheel section" that you can add to your frame?


I was going to suggest that. For $2400-2900 the hard part is done for you.

With the Timbren design, you are basically going to end up either building your own 'torsion-type' full width axle, or you'll have a stub axle.

Someone on Kreg's List in St Paul was selling torsion axles with long enough arms.
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#2999005 - 01/16/13 10:18 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: Lip_Ripper Guy]
2toysup Offline
Hello I'm New

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Isanti
Pre-fab From Ice Assault's web site:
16' and 18' Heavy Duty Tandem Axle Center Section (*max. load 6000lbs): 2910.00
Brakes: 250.00
Total being $3160.00

Me-fab from Isanti:
Timbren #3500 w/brake's $667
Timbren #3500 wo/brakes $534
Hyd. Pump $450.00
Hyd. cylinders $240.00
Steel $450
Total being $2341

$820 savings on just the center portion of frame according to my rough numbers.

If it aint broke, modify it.
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#2999203 - 01/16/13 01:08 PM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: 2toysup]
randerson Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 398
Loc: North Metro
which timbren part # where you using( I seen they had 3 #'s for each weight but didn't really under stand the differences maybe it was how high or low the frame set??) I didn't see any with brakes I'm interested in trying these on a trailer I will be rebuilding in the summer
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#2999236 - 01/16/13 01:35 PM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: randerson]
2toysup Offline
Hello I'm New

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Isanti
Originally Posted By: randerson
which timbren part # where you using( I seen they had 3 #'s for each weight but didn't really under stand the differences maybe it was how high or low the frame set??) I didn't see any with brakes I'm interested in trying these on a trailer I will be rebuilding in the summer

A35RS545E part number for 3500# w brakes
A35RS545 part number 3500# w/o brakes
Only one axle has to have brakes on it to my understanding.

If it aint broke, modify it.
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#2999313 - 01/16/13 02:46 PM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: 2toysup]
Blackhawkxp Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Granite Falls, MN
Don't quote me on this but i believe any trailer in MN heeds to have brakes on both axles. Not sure if this is applicable to fish house but i would double check to be sure.
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#2999854 - 01/17/13 06:58 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: Blackhawkxp]
2toysup Offline
Hello I'm New

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Isanti
Out are correct on the brakes. So take another 130 away from the savings and take away some paint/powder coat cost ... Looks like I will be going with that center section from ice assault after all.

If it aint broke, modify it.
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#2999898 - 01/17/13 07:40 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: randerson]
aczr2k Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 687
Loc: On a lake
I can see where your close on your numbers. Plumbing, paint (powder coating on the ice assualt) and misc will eat in to your $820 by at least half. I am a design engineer and a fairly good fabricator and my time is certainly worth more than the $400 of possible savings. Another thing I'd bet is that the ice assualt frames are built in a jig instead of your shed floor?
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#2999925 - 01/17/13 07:54 AM
Re: Fish house frame info anyone? [Re: aczr2k]
aczr2k Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 687
Loc: On a lake
Trailer brakes aren't required on tandem trailers with lighter load ratings, but I'm sure this fishouse would be over that weight (3000 lbs limit?) I have a new Aluma 7x16 tandem axle, no brakes and lifetime license.
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