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#2763943 - 01/27/12 03:06 AM
Thoughts On 220's
motley man Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 1150
Loc: Motley,mn.
Any thoughts on the 220 conibear ban push by dog onwers.
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#2763967 - 01/27/12 05:37 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: motley man]
memyself@I Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 110
Loc: MN
Motley man

It is NOT a push to ban 220s, I am not sure where this misinformation is coming from, but its a lie. Many states require that the body grips are set 5 feet off the ground, and for a climbing species like fisher and marten, it is very effective, in fact Maine traps substantially more fisher and marten than we do.

Why not open a dialogue and see what can be done together so that trappers can continue their harvest, and that dog owners, who legally spend more and more time in the woods during trapping season can have a greatly reduced risk of having their dogs caught and killed in a body grip trap??
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#2764297 - 01/27/12 10:43 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: memyself@I]
Brownie77 Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 299
Loc: MN
.


Edited by Brownie77 (01/27/12 10:50 AM)
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#2764520 - 01/27/12 03:59 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: memyself@I]
mnbullrider Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
Originally Posted By: memyself@I
Motley man

It is NOT a push to ban 220s, I am not sure where this misinformation is coming from, but its a lie. Many states require that the body grips are set 5 feet off the ground, and for a climbing species like fisher and marten, it is very effective, in fact Maine traps substantially more fisher and marten than we do.

Why not open a dialogue and see what can be done together so that trappers can continue their harvest, and that dog owners, who legally spend more and more time in the woods during trapping season can have a greatly reduced risk of having their dogs caught and killed in a body grip trap??



What was the article in the trib and news cast on WCCO about if it wasnt about adding restrictions or elminitating the use of body gripping traps on public land in MN. I'm not trying to be argumentive but thats how I preceived both publications. I think in some areas elevated pole sets are less effective than others from my experence also seems to be that with marten more males are caught than females with elevated sets. Cats in elevated sets never had it happen.

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2764777 - 01/28/12 01:31 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mnbullrider]
HunterLee Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 962
Loc: MN
Why would we want to give up one of the best tools we have??????? Any restrictions will cost us fur, and its not to hard to trap more fishers than MN as we have a small 9 day season and they have a long one. I have yet to get a fisher in a elevated set, but only have tried a few.

Also doubt that bobcats will climb to get in my trap.
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#2764779 - 01/28/12 01:35 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: HunterLee]
HunterLee Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 962
Loc: MN
Second thought maybe we should outlaw dogs in the woods? That sounds just as good.

I take my dog trapping all the time. She has had been taught and I have no worries. A little education on both ends would help alot.
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#2765294 - 01/28/12 08:08 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: motley man]
Saw557 Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 136
Its a slippery slope to go down. I have two hunting dogs and am I a trapper I understand the risks of running a dog in the field. I also dont think the laws about the use of 220's should be changed. If they make us elevate the set you can about right off ever catching a bob cat and I think it would effect the fisher harvest as well.It really irks me when the media goes on a witch hunt like this. There are a lot bigger problems in the state then the use of 220's. I paged through the petiton and noticed the vast majority of people that signed it are from the metro area and have more than likely don't really understand how things work in the big woods....flame on
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#2768469 - 02/01/12 04:37 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Saw557]
dcraven Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 52
Loc: walker, mn
As a dog owner who hunts in the uplands and a trapper I could see a common sense approach, rather than banning 220's to some height restriction, that would require a sign being posted (much similar to our bear baiting law) at the nearest trailhead, access area or road abutment that would warn dog owners of a nearby trap yet not give away the location of the trap. This would cut down the dog deaths greatly and would only increase the loss of stolen traps a fairly small amount. The sign might be two or three hundred yards from the trap. Oddly enough, as I type this, there is a special on Brainerd/Bemidji's Public TV news show, Lakeland News, on this very issue.

I would hate to see the loss of 220's on the ground. This is the headline of the show right now... He's pushing for a five foot off the ground limit. Wow... A sign or two is all that is needed to greatly reduce this. Representative John Ward is meeting with the DNR on this next week, it says.

dcraven
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#2768664 - 02/01/12 08:29 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: dcraven]
monstermoose78 Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Specialist

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 1828
Loc: Princeton
if you placed a sign it would it be the end of your trap, because someone would steal it or set it off.

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#2768716 - 02/01/12 09:13 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: monstermoose78]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
So I have about 300 plus sets a year, not bucket sets down the road but sets spread out over a twenty mile square of northern Minnesota wilderness. How many signs would I need?

I think its simple. I have been debating this in the hunting forum and I have a solution. All hunting dogs small enough to fit into a 220 trap need to be on a four foot leash. Not saying they have to get rid of the dog or ban small dogs just change how they use them.

Wasn't such a good idea when they had to change their methods...made no sense at all to the dog club.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2769220 - 02/01/12 06:45 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
jparrucci Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
I guess if trap theft is that huge of any issue, it says a lot about the people trapping. Keep up comments like that jonnyp and you will have most hunters against you and a total ban on trapping. We as dog owners are looking for solutions, if the only responses from trappers are to keep our dogs out if the woods, your trapping days will be numbered. Trappers NEED hunters support, not the other way around. A few less birds because predator numbers are higher isn't going to cost me sleep. Losing my dog because some bonehead put a 220 right next to a wma parking lot or right off a heavily hunted grouse trail is gonna cost me sleep. Trappers have had their chance to cooperate and use common sense. This last fall and winter have proven they refuse to trap ethically or intelligently. So what is gonna change? Is there something that can be done to make things safer? Later season start? Different type if trap? If the best trappers can come up with is leash my dog while hunting, I hope you enjoyed your last trapping season.

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2769357 - 02/01/12 08:34 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
LOL

Well I think it makes perfect sense! Us as trappers are the ones being asked to change how we do things. I feel it is only fair that the dog owners also take a look and make some changes. If we have to elevate our traps and you put your dog on a leash nothing bad will ever happen, we both had to change how things are done and both groups lost efficeincy.

Like I said not that I want to ban dogs, just how they how they are used.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2769378 - 02/01/12 08:47 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
RangerJack Offline
HSOList.com Family

Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 210
Loc: Minnesota
Jonny, I see where you're coming from..You need to trap to make a living, but you also need people coming to your area to hunt/fish, so you can make $$ off of them. Both sides will have to give up something, or it's not fair. But more than likely the trappers will be screwed, because many grouse hunters are from the cities, and have more influence in the legislature. I sure hope the 220 stays around for years to come, because I would like to catch a bobcat in one some day. Both sides are going to have to come to an agreement, and meet in the middle. Get your voice out there, keep it cool/calm, and hope for the best.

good luck
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#2769437 - 02/01/12 09:52 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: RangerJack]
mnbullrider Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
This issue makes my head spin. Why should there be more regulations on 6 incedental catches over the entire area of the state. I don't see the dog hunters taking any responsiblity at all. The only thing that I have seen so far is the talk of the caveman trapper that has no morals or ethics and THEY need to change. If that day did come and hopefully not if trapping is gone who is in the cross hairs then? I have no animosity towards people who enjoy hunting with dogs and it suprises me that the dog hunters dislike trappers so much. Why is it so hard for everyone to let people enjoy the outdoors the way they like to just because it's different than your preference does not mean its better or worse. If you ask me vehicles have taken more dogs than traps but a really good hunting dog wouldn't chase a car would it? Life is dangerous.

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2769676 - 02/02/12 08:02 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Originally Posted By: jparrucci
I guess if trap theft is that huge of any issue, it says a lot about the people trapping.


By the way the comment about stolen traps and what type of people trappers are. The last traps I had stolen the man from Brainerd with his wife and birddog walked out with the trap chains hanging from the game bag on his vest right past one of my trail cameras. I set out the camera for late season bow hunting hoping to get a picture of a buck with a down turned rack but instead I got a guy stealing traps and trespassing. I thought since I was on private property I was safe and didn’t have to hide my trail, tracks or sets. He followed them right to the sets pulled the traps and turned around back out. Gave the phototo the warden and got my traps back and he got a nice trespassing warning from the land owner...and the landowner is scarier then any trap by a long ways. In fact I lost minnow traps two years ago north of town, grouse hunter stumbled onto them took them and tried to trade them to another bait dealer that recognized they where mine. Warden went and got those traps back also.

So lets be careful about telling the kettle just what color he is.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2769704 - 02/02/12 08:28 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
bigg edd Offline
HSOList.com Family

Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 214
Hey jparrucci, if trappers are a bunch of stealing thugs why do you hear about the constant breaking in of fish houses and theft of tree stands???? Next time you hit your favorite bird trail leave a bunch of your gear in the back of your pick-up if its so safe. It's people like you who worry me....
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#2769731 - 02/02/12 08:40 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: bigg edd]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Bigg Edd, Trappers did it silly! What else do trappers have to do in our off time after we killed all the dogs? "Spose we could al just sats a round in our coon skin caps drinking shine off the front purch and spit tobbacoo at the step kids while we clean the blood of our skunnun nifes". crazy laugh

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2769744 - 02/02/12 08:48 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: bigg edd]
dcraven Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 52
Loc: walker, mn
Johnny P. - seriously - do you have 300 220 sets per year out? I find that a bit hard to believe. I'm specifically talking about on-land sets w/220's, which is what this thread is about. If you are not willing to compromise a bit in this day and age you (we) will get run over because trappers are now in the vast MINORITY. In my opinion, this bill could potentially pass in the next couple of years. A happy medium would be better than having to relocate all of our 220's to five feet above ground. Reread my initial response. I'm not proposing to have a sign posted at the trap, I'm suggesting posting a sign at the trailhead, vicinity or road access that would obviously deter the bird hunters from choosing that trail at that point in time. They would go elsewhere - to a different trail - they would not go trap hunting. The alternative may well be all the way to what none of us want, as trappers - the loss of the right to trap on the ground with body-grippers... I just would rather have this than the loss of the right alltogether.

DC

dcraven
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#2769759 - 02/02/12 08:56 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
monstermoose78 Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Specialist

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 1828
Loc: Princeton
I am sure the girl who was caught setting my traps off belonged to P.E.T.A. because that was the sticker she had one her window of her car. I had the make model and lics plate number for the warden. I know as a trapper i would never think about taking anothers trap. I think people need to take responsibility for their actions and know if its trapping season what risk your taking. Its like ice fishing you all know the ice might break and your truck could fall in, but we take that chance. I do not take my dog out while martin fisher and bobcat season is going on because I do not want to take the chance. I think John said trappers help the bird hunters and that is pure truth with out trappers think of how many less birds would be around.

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#2769770 - 02/02/12 09:00 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: dcraven]
monstermoose78 Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Specialist

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 1828
Loc: Princeton
Dcraven neither do you! Trappers help ground nesting birds more then would ever know. 1 coon can destory how many nests in its home range, snunks the same, fox. All of which can be caught in a box set with a 220 so get off your high horse.

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#2769772 - 02/02/12 09:01 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
swampman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
I would like to thank you for lumping all us trappers together. The thought that trap theft is just trappers is ubsurd, "trappers have had there chance to cooperate and use common sense and trap ethically or intelligently" must be nice to be a hunter and not have any idiots in your ranks huh? come on get real there is a sprikling of idiots in every faction of society. I hunt as do most trappers and have had hunting dogs for 30 yrs.
We don't need hunters and trappers turning on each other, we are both minorities in the general public and there is a large segment of society that would like to see hunting banned also.
There should be some room for compromise instead of having a knee jerk reaction to a media story that showed a slanted view on a emotional issue
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#2769803 - 02/02/12 09:27 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: monstermoose78]
jparrucci Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
Again, I ask what else can be done? You guys are not helping your cause. Is there some trapping rules you don't like that can offset this? I have yet to hear ANY constructive response. Is there any alternative? Or should I just write you guys off? I want to help you catch more predators. Give me some examples, alternative solutions to current laws and seasons. When I go to my friends in high places I would like to be able to help you, not hurt you.

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2769839 - 02/02/12 09:52 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: motley man]
Tinkhamtown Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 434
Loc: Minnesota
$1000.00 for a good pup, years of training and hunting experience priceless add one 220 equals a super loss of a priceless member of my family plus lots of sadness. I keep my dogs out of danger as much as possible by not hunting when trapping is going on.
Tink

Watch your top knot
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#2769928 - 02/02/12 11:13 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
monstermoose78 Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Specialist

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 1828
Loc: Princeton
jparrucci did you ask yourself what else you could to do help prevent this? You dont seem to be helping your cause either. An alternative for trapping with 220s not really. Well if you could get bobcats coons fox and coyotes to just walk in my back yard I would shoot them, but you have make sure it was during season. If your dog was killed I am sorry but you knew trapping season was going on. Just remember when go to your high places friends they cant help you in when you cant find a grouse pheasant of duck to shoot, because you took away a tool of the trappers.

Thanks Tink! I dont hunt with a dog when trapping season is going either.


Edited by monstermoose78 (02/02/12 11:16 AM)

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#2769949 - 02/02/12 11:30 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Tinkhamtown]
swampman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
I wish I could give a solution that would make everybody happy. I can't. Outlaw all traps, peoples dogs are still going to be hit by cars and killed, I would bet that a 100 times more pets are killed each year by vehicles but it does'nt make the 10 pm news. I personally kwno of 5 good hunting dogs run over by cars I don't personally know anybody that has lost a dog to a trap.
I will give one idea to kick around
1-look into adjusting season dates so we don't get as much overlap (grouse season is 3 1/2 months long. Close grouse season dec 1 and start bobcat/fisher martin season after dec 1
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#2769952 - 02/02/12 11:32 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
monstermoose78 Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Specialist

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 1828
Loc: Princeton
+1 to that

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#2769970 - 02/02/12 11:45 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: monstermoose78]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Originally Posted By: dcraven
Johnny P. - seriously - do you have 300 220 sets per year out? I find that a bit hard to believe.



Yes. I just ordered all wishbone triggers for the older 220s 330s and I needed three boxes of 100 to get it done, some already have the updated trigger. By second week of season I was running out of 220s and pulled the 220 water sets to go on land as the water was freezing up. I also ran about 280 pans sets not counting snare sets. Few snare sets as the 220 works better and is cleaner. Where the problem is in this area has to do with freeze up. Once the water freezes traps have to go on land or above the water line. Having a trap froze into ice does not work very well. Only set that works in the water after freeze up is submerged 330 beaver sets or undercut pan. Under ice sets do not perform very well compared to a 220 on an over land run. Some say use the 110 on land but the sizing is too small for otter and the miss rate on rats goes through the roof. Larger critters all you are doing with thee 110 is snapping animals on the head wasting your time. I own a whopping half dozen 110 conibears. It would be like using a rat terrier to retrieve ducks.

Ok jparrucci, I know you seen this in the hunting forum where have also stated the lack of intellect us trappers have but I will post it here again for you. By the way jparrucci this “bonehead trapper” has a degree…who woulda thunk that dun da da? Dude you need to get out of your office and go outside more.
Quote:
You want solutions here are solutions. I have already presented these and was told not good enough.

Vertical dog proof coon boxes, other states use them. Not good enough for Minnesota dog owners. As the worry was hybrid mini dogs could still get in.

220 by permit just like snares used to be. Areas of upland hunters and other dog users or wolves at the time where protected/restricted so snare permits had to applied for keeping snares out of high risk areas and monitored by local law enforcement. I was told a 220 permit was a waste of time because dog owners said the traps would still be on the ground in other places.

Change of seasons was rejected because trappers have already been pushed late into freeze up and bird hunters do not want to give up any part of a 3 ½ month long season. Plus the recreational dog users or those taking the house dog for a walk still want Fido to get in touch with his inner wolf and run free through the woods year round.

Bird hunters and trappers are required to go to training about traps. Nobody wanted to do that.

Once a group gets a hold of an anti trapping campaign there is not much one can do. We see it over and over.



So now what is my #1 tool is being taken away and I’m told tough cookies. I put in several suggestions but was told they are a waste of time as the plan is no 220 on land period. Go to the hunting forum and see this. The push is to ban the 220 on land a move the makes the trap basically useless for most applications and that is just the way it is going to be. It would be like me coming into somebody’s office and say here is your hard drive, monitor, mouse but you don’t get a keyboard, it has to stay on the shelf.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770131 - 02/02/12 02:24 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA


Quote:
Close grouse season dec 1 and start bobcat/fisher martin season after dec 1



+2..

Really not too hard to reach a compromise if people are willing to give a little.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2770134 - 02/02/12 02:30 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA


Quote:
Once the water freezes traps have to go on land or above the water line. Having a trap froze into ice does not work very well.



Doubt if there's any instances of dogs being caught in watersets, so the law shouldn't be changed in regards to watersets.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2770147 - 02/02/12 02:44 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA


One more thing - actually two. Run the fisher/martin season the same length of time as the bobcat season, and run the otter season with the beaver seasons. These items irk me.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2770154 - 02/02/12 02:47 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
monstermoose78 Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Specialist

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 1828
Loc: Princeton
+1

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#2770229 - 02/02/12 04:15 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: motley man]
Trapper J Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 46
Loc: Ironton MN
As a gundog man I understand the concern of the 220.I also love my trapping.I also know that no good can come out of this by both sides taking potshots at each other.The anti's are lovin it! There are some ideas out there mentioned earlier that would work- no baited boxes or buckets until after Dec.1,possibly signs at a trail-head or area,shorten bird season,etc. Elevated sets dont work very good.I tried it for 2 seasons with 10 sets they produced nothing.Cats and fisher dont hunt 4 to 5 ft off the ground.Also these were spots that were and still are producing critters when set up on the ground. I dont know of a trapper that would want to do harm to a dog.Once in a while they get caught and its unfortunate.Accidents happen!Lets not punish all trappers for it and take away a good tool.Sometimes I think there is more regard for a dogs life than human lives.I didnt see wcco in the area when a young guy got killed a few weeks ago just down the road.
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#2770248 - 02/02/12 04:37 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
Ray1 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 620
Loc: moorhead, Mn.
Originally Posted By: swamptiger


One more thing - actually two. Run the fisher/martin season the same length of time as the bobcat season, and run the otter season with the beaver seasons. These items irk me.
Finally someone thinking the way i do.

As a dog owner, trapper, fisherman and hunter i keep a good eye on my dog durring trapping season and always cary a pair of conibear setters. That way if my dog does happen to get into one i can get him out quickly.

I would hate to see any regulations on 220s. Hunters and trappers need to be a team against Peta not fighting each other. Simple as that. Trappers keep furbears in check which helps nesting birds. Trappers also pay to be outdoors just like hunters so lets get together and fight against more restrictions.

2008 King of the cats champion
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#2770251 - 02/02/12 04:39 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Originally Posted By: swamptiger


One more thing - actually two. Run the fisher/martin season the same length of time as the bobcat season, and run the otter season with the beaver seasons. These items irk me.


That makes way to much sense.


Swamptiger you have some great ideas and I commend you for them.

As for grouse closure and season adjusts I mentioned that but the pheasant hunters and rabbit hunters shot that down as quickly as a one winged rooster.

I will be the first to say we the trappers may have lost this battle before it even started. It is the way has always been and will always be until the trapper is gone from America. I just wish I wouldn't have spent the money replacing all the triggers on my 220s. Now I have a pile of useless iron with new triggers, guess I didn’t see this coming. Maybe I should call WCCO and start sobbing for the camera. I might get as good of turn out as the dog side of this did and somebody will donate me the cost of the triggers. Maybe somebody will give me a 10k dog, heck I would be happy with a $50 dog as I miss my old bird dog. She got ran over on a job site a couple years ago. I plan on petitioning a ban on all wheeled construction equipment later this month.

To get back on track

Trouble I run into is my water sets legally become "ground sets" once the ice forms. “Elevated” puts them up where only climbing critters can get to them so water based furbearers that still rove around after freeze up and do not climb are now a snare or no-freeze pan set such as a fox set. Trapping the bog is a major difference from trapping river bottoms and the hilly country of southern MN. Heck I have huge multi mile areas I don’t even have a tree big enough to elevate the trap in, I struggle to find brush heavy enough to anchor snares and often have pack in steel stakes. Loss/miss rates are going to go way up. Sadly the only way to make up the numbers is more pan traps and snares.

The title of topic is thoughts on the 220. My thought is the 220 is the most valuable tool in my arsenal. Loss of the 220 ground set will severely impact my success and income. To resolve or counter the effects of the 220 ban I plan on placing either two larger pan traps say #2s and #3s in its place to keep the odds in favor. Another approach will be a four snare set in every place I can no longer ground set a 220. Some places the two big hard hitting pan traps will work and other the multiple snare sets will make up the difference. It will be hard to make up for the efficiency of the 220 and will require multiple sets to equal out. Either way I have a second window open right now ordering 200 premade snares in three grades/sizes to replace the 220s. The prices are not bad right now and figured snatch them up now before that changes. 600 snares should cover the first year snares in place of the 220 ground set requirements I need to meet. Sadly snares are a one catch deal, especially using the good locking slides. I guess one good thing about going to snares is I will be able to extend my lines covering more territory as I can pack a couple hundred snares where I could fit 10 or 12 220 conibears, plus a much lighter load.
Guess that’s the silver lining of it.


Of course next year it will be snares. Soon all we will be able to trap is squirrels in the tops of trees and moles underground. Wonder how police forces feel about trading their muskrat fur lined hats for squirrel hats? laugh

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770257 - 02/02/12 04:42 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
Tinkhamtown Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 434
Loc: Minnesota
December 1 stop grouse hunting and begin trapping is a good idea!

+3

Watch your top knot
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#2770267 - 02/02/12 04:49 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Tinkhamtown]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
October 15th is when I can start trapping and up here it is a small window before the water freezes up and several species go dormant. Looks good on paper but the reality of it is tough due to winter setting in.

As for Bobcat, Fisher, Martin and other "late season" species it would make sense.But when it comes to other species moslty coons in the southern end it won't work.

Its complicated on many levels

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770290 - 02/02/12 05:09 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA


Quote:
.But when it comes to other species moslty coons in the southern end it won't work.




Not sure 220's are the main trap in use for coons, fox, and coyotes, anyway.. The dogproof traps and footholds are mostly what I've seen serious coon and canine trappers use.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2770301 - 02/02/12 05:24 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
Trashguy Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 73
Loc: Longville, MN USA
JonnyP, I was not going to post anymore, but with your attitude I just have too. Maybe if you had that $50 dog on a 4' leash, she/he would have not gotten run over & you wouldn't have to worry about that petition. Remember all the suggestions about having your dog under control, bologna? I know this is all coming from your frustration with what might come in changes. I understand that. But what really tics me off with all back and forth bickering set aside, what really comes through with most of your post on this subject is your problem with us that live in the southern part of the state and want to enjoy that part of the country too and value each minute spent in the woods. It comes across big time from my end. And yes I own no $10,000 dog (get off it, as how many people do), no ATV, heck I still use a small compass and don't own GPS either. If I am wrong in my read on you, tell me why . I could go on, but why when I would't change your mind anyway. anyway. One other thing that gets too me is some the analogies being used by some of the trapper group. I guess you you don't have a good answer to the questions being asked, that is what you use for an answer.
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#2770307 - 02/02/12 05:28 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
dcraven Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 52
Loc: walker, mn
Johnny - Impressive - that is a lot of traps to run!

MonsterM - I didn't quite understand your comment, "and neither do/did you...; so get off your high horse..." Since when is stating one's opinion being "on a high horse."? It may really tick you off (sounds like it...) that others may have a differing opinion than you but let's face it - this is all about constituents/politics. Who do you think has more power politically - us as trappers or dog owners? That's the bottom line these days - a little laminated sign - say 4" by 6" is a heck of a lot better than losing our rights to have our 220's on the ground...

dcraven
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#2770319 - 02/02/12 05:44 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: dcraven]
jparrucci Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
Thank you to swampman and swamptiger for bringing constructive solutions. I don't know when is the prime time for some of these species, so the input of some experts helps. Grouse woods compared to farmland is a big difference too. Is there areas of the state where they are more important than others?

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2770356 - 02/02/12 06:16 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA


Quote:
Is there areas of the state where they are more important than others?


To me, the 220 is a primary tool for watersets and fisher/martin/bobcat trapping. Watersets shouldn't be an issue for dogs. Coon/fox/coyote trappers have other options available that work as well or better than 220s, imop. The fisher/martin/bobcat season could easily be moved back to Dec. 1st, imop.

That's about it, except bird hunters should also realize that trappers provide a great service to bird populations in general..

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2770358 - 02/02/12 06:17 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Thats what gets it all squirrly. I use 220s for water based animals and have to pull the traps on land by definition due to ice. Trappers I know to the south use 220s for land based critters such as coon, skunk (harvested for scent galnds and fur) and other smaller rascals along with water based animals on slide or crossover sets (when a critter goes across a beaver dam or point of land).

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770359 - 02/02/12 06:18 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Sorry swamptiger I see you posted while I was typing.

As for Fox and coyote 220 is not a good tool to use. I prefer snares for those and many like pan traps.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770394 - 02/02/12 06:47 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
swampman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
Your right the area of the state I trap and Jonny p trap are alot different down here in the more "coon country " part of the state most guys are not running 220 land sets in the fall, some do, the ones that are most are running unbaited coon trail sets and not buckets or boxes as they are not real effective that time of year. Most of the bucket and box 220 sets are a late winter early spring thing for coon in the southern half of the state.
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#2770420 - 02/02/12 07:04 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Huh, thats interesting. Coons don't have trails up here. Of course we don't have very many coon up here compaired to southern regions. When I bring them to the buyer he gives me dirty looks and keeps telling me "stringy". grin Most coons I trap here are out of yards as favors for neigbors.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770428 - 02/02/12 07:13 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA
Quote:
Most coons I trap here are out of yards as favors for neigbors.



Ever use one of these? Cat's meow dog-proof coon trap...




Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2770431 - 02/02/12 07:16 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
swampman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
Most of the guys that set trails are setting path's to corn fields which you don't have or path's to creeks and such early season. Most of the numbers guys are water trappers.
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#2770439 - 02/02/12 07:21 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Yup I tried a few and they do work great. Easy to set and a no worry deal. I actaully tried to get otter to paw into one just to see, no luck.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770441 - 02/02/12 07:22 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Originally Posted By: swampman
. Most of the numbers guys are water trappers.


That would be me. Majority of my sets are done from a boat.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770445 - 02/02/12 07:25 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA
I've caught a few skunks in them, but nothing else..(besides coon)..

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2770446 - 02/02/12 07:26 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
mnbullrider Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
I think that the pheasant regions of the state are where the problems arise more frequent I'm not from there, only can assume. Actually I've never heard anyone from where I grew up in Kooch county to where I live now in Beltrami county talk about the issue of dogs getting into a conibear very rare occurance. I will also say that the dog proof type traps have taken on with coon trappers like wildfire if you're looking for lil grizz or duke DP's at the trappers convention you'd better get on it or the vendors will be sold out some of the coon longliners strickly run DP's on their lines. The 220 is very important part of trapping and one of the most versitile traps ever made imo. I can only speak for the nothern region of the state but more restriction to already short seasons and limited time to a trapper like myself who does not have full days besides weekends, weekday mornings and nights before and after work, the loss of the 220 could force me to make sets that take more time consuming measures and push me out of something that I have enjoyed doing since I was 8 years old. Keep in mind I'm not trying to take down the guys in the south I only know the problem's in the northern parts of the state and I'm shure trapping methods are much different as ways species are trapped.

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2770514 - 02/02/12 08:21 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mnbullrider]
sheepheadslayer Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 576
Loc: waterville mn
I still can't believe that hunters want to side with anti's and limit anything in this regard. How many of the dogs lost out there could have been saved by being educated?? for sure the dog that the owner had his son go get a gun to be put down while in a 220 as was the article in the Star Trib. This person had they had some knowledge of the 220 could have twisted the springs in the upright position and woud have ample time to remove the trap. Shoot your own dog because you are uneducated? [PoorWordUsage] Any ban on anything outdoors related on public property or not is no good for anyone. The number one thing is education. Rather than be educated just simply ban something so you don't have to worry about it. Go figure.
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#2770560 - 02/02/12 09:00 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: sheepheadslayer]
gixxer01 Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 01/22/10
Posts: 252
Loc: St. Cloud, MN
The conversation will be on wcco news again tonight.
Legislation will be proposed next wed. to elevate 220s.


Edited by gixxer01 (02/02/12 09:05 PM)
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#2770629 - 02/02/12 10:31 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: gixxer01]
MuleShack Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 2820
Loc: South Metro
I'm not against trapping, I'm just worried for my dogs while hunting on public lands.

So with that, I'm going to throw out a somewhat simple solution. Bird hunters hunt during the daylight and most traps are filled over night with nocturnal creatures.
The traps could be placed an hour prior to sunset and need to be removed/released before shooting time in the morning. Hunters get 8 hours of free time and trappers get 16 hours a day.

We share the land, we share the time and take any risk out of it. the trappers can still use the 220 and the hunters can not worry that their dog may find a box or bucket in the ditch.

Most trappers that do this as a hobby should have no problem setting an area each night. The guys that set 300 which in my opinion is more of a business/commercial run outfit probably wont be able to get their stuff set over night.

I guess it wont work for everyone, but just throwing it out there as an idea.
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#2770647 - 02/02/12 11:31 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: MuleShack]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
And this is how it goes. Wiger has proposed that ALL body grip traps not just the 220 have to be 5 feet off the ground OR COMPLETELY SUBMERGED in the water! So now we have to figure out how get animals to dive into a trap or climb up five feet. It went from 220 ground sets to ALL body gripping traps not only elevated but submerged, not halfway submerged as the current 330 law states but completely submerged as in fully under the water.

Quote:
Wiger, along with Rep. John Ward of Brainerd, aren’t asking to ban the trap, but rather change how it’s used. They want the traps moved 5 feet off the ground and placed in a way that dogs can’t get to them. Also, if the traps are used in the water to catch muskrats and other animals, they would have to be completely submerged.


Yet another kick in the teeth. People ask us for compromise and want us to understand!? Ya that just went out the window with another sucker punch from behind. Better look out hunters as soon us trappers will be gone and your next.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770669 - 02/03/12 04:22 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: MuleShack]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA
Quote:
I guess it wont work for everyone, but just throwing it out there as an idea.


I don't see that as a workable solution for anyone.


There are three main issues here, as I see it:

1.) The use of the 220 as a trail/dry land set for coon. This would primarily be in the south zone. There are other alternatives available.

2.) The end date of grouse season in the north conflicts with the start date of fisher/marten/bobcat season. These dates could be moved to Dec. 1st.

3.) The use and established methods of 220s for watersets should not be an issue at all, and shouldn't be changed.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2770671 - 02/03/12 04:27 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
dcraven Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 52
Loc: walker, mn
Johnny P. - Where do you market your fur up your way? The nearest furbuyer I can find to hear (Walker) is Fosston, G. Rapids and Detroit Lakes...

DC

dcraven
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#2770728 - 02/03/12 06:16 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: dcraven]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Some to Park Rapids, some to Grand Rapids and some goes direct to auction. Although after I got the call last night I really think I may be hanging it up. They ban the current water set for fully submerged I will not bring in enough plus need to buy a ton of pan traps to replace the 220s,330s. If it passes its all over for me.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770742 - 02/03/12 06:28 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
RangerJack Offline
HSOList.com Family

Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 210
Loc: Minnesota
Is there anything we can do to make a compromise? Or is the voice of the bird hunter(s) too big?

I'd gladly make a call to a legislator.
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#2770759 - 02/03/12 06:57 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: RangerJack]
Eric Wettschreck Offline

HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 10683
Loc: Avoca, MN. USA
I won't say the bird hunters voice is too big, but it's huge. I'm guessing it's due to there are a lot more bird hunters in my area than trappers.

"Thoughts on 220s" Here's mine, it's the most valuable tool I have for trapping coon and skunks. I live, hunt, and trap in SW MN, pheasant country. Land trail sets is where I get over half of my coon and skunk. Yes, footholds would work but the 220 works a LOT better. If I have to elevate these, the trail set is gone. I don't want to walk up on a live skunk who's not happy cuz his foot is in a trap, and I trap a lot of skunks.

For fox they work, but not real well.

One thing pheasant hunters (I'm one of them) need to understand is skunks will do more to decimate the bird population than a bad winter will.

All the WMA and WPA's here have signs all over the place saying it's public hunting land. Another sign on the same post saying "Traps in the area, watch your dog" is a great idea so the hunters realize the risk.

I trapped a dog once. On my property. It didn't die. I felt badly for the dog but didn't have a lick of anything nice to think about the guy trespassing on my land.

Dude, where's my bobber????



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#2770760 - 02/03/12 07:01 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: RangerJack]
jparrucci Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
The current proposal is not a fair solution I would not support it. The is no need for any changes on or in wetlands

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2770841 - 02/03/12 08:01 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Quote:
Gentleman,

I have come to realize I am being faced with what may be an end of a 100 year legacy, a livelihood and just a way of life in Northern Minnesota. Sen. “Chuck” Wiger and Rep. John Ward plan to propose a bill intended to protect dogs from being harmed in the body gripping traps after a tear jerker news broadcast on WCCO TV.

Now I can understand the plight of dog owners as some 220 “body gripping” traps can be set in MN for raccoons in a manner that dogs can enter them and can be harmed. An original suggestion of elevating the 220 or utilizing dog proof boxes for raccoon bait sets has its merits.

Where this has over stepped the bounds is this proposal appears to be targeting ALL sizes of body gripping traps. Not only shocking but what will be a devastating blow to the trapping community, is the request also includes ALL water set body grip traps to be completely submerged, contrasting the current half submerged law that is currently in place for the 330 size body grip trap. These traps will be banned from performing as completely submerged and highly elevated works with very limited success.

Now I can debate the rights of trappers’ verses the rights of dog owners until the cows come home, but another larger problem for Minnesota will start small and grow out of proportion.

This proposal will not only greatly reduce the efficiency of the trappers that attempt to continue to trap, but will be the final straw in pushing many trappers out of the sport. Not only will Minnesota lose licenses and outdoor recreation dollars but our varmint and predator control systems is going to list and capsize. Currently the DNR in conjunction with the trapper work to keep these populations in check, what we will see is a swing in the favor of the varmints and predators. This will include raccoons, coyotes, skunks, muskrats, beavers and many other animals that will become overpopulated becoming a nuisance problem. Senator Skoe I do not need to explain to you the problems that can be created when beaver and muskrat grow over populated or go unchecked; your agriculture background has shown you that first hand. I also will hate to see what happens to small game populations as ground bearing furbearers grow in numbers and start gorging on nesting birds and eggs. Grouse, Sharp-tail, Pheasant, Ducks and a long list of target species for the Minnesota sportsman will come under attack like they have never seen. Lake home owners will lose shoreline due to overpopulated muskrats, road crews will spend endless dollars clearing beaver plugged culverts and flooded roadways. What is the scariest is damage to protective ring dikes, flood diversions and other water control systems. The burrowing of uncontrolled beaver, otter, muskrat and skunk populations will become very apparent when the integrity of flood diversion mechanisms fail. Sadly this will happen when they are needed the most.

This issue as minor as it may be for many is very important to Northern Minnesota. With the body gripping trap only allowed completely submerged or 5 feet off the ground it renders the trap basically useless. Trappers will be forced to return to 1940’s methods of foothold trapping and snares, a very inefficient method that will greatly reduce harvest numbers. Or many trappers will just give up the sport as many have already stated they will do. Loss of efficiency and the cost to replace the body gripping traps with other methods will be too much for many to absorb. I as a full time trapper that utilizes Minnesota trapping as a part of my professional income fear this will be too great of a burden, I myself will not be able to continue trapping if this proposal passes.

Please help protect the trapper in Minnesota, we need them.

Jonthan G. Petrowske
Outdoors With Jonny P LLC




Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770866 - 02/03/12 08:17 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
dcraven Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 52
Loc: walker, mn
Good letter! That is the kind of stuff it is going to take - counter-constituency - letting them know that not all voters out there agree w/this.... I encourage all to write/email their local representatives about this in a simliar fashion. It does not have to be long - just long enough to let them know that you disagree with an upcoming bill.

If you don't mind me asking (JP.), who in Park Rapids have you found? I live 25 minutes from there, is all...

DC

dcraven
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#2770873 - 02/03/12 08:29 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: dcraven]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
DJ Bujarski, he's a great guy prices very fair.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2770890 - 02/03/12 08:43 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA

Jonny - send a copy of that letter to Tony Cornish, too. Don't know if you know him, but he was a former CO and I believe he also has done some trapping, so I'm sure he has a better grasp of a lot of the trapping issues
than most of those guys.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2770994 - 02/03/12 09:52 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
sheepheadslayer Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 576
Loc: waterville mn
Contacted Tony this morning. He has been arguing with Wiger over the bill for weeks. He told me to contact the MTA and have them on top of this ASAP. Im sure they are but anybody that doesnt belong this a great time to join. He will fight it but he's only one voice. We need to contact all reps ASAP.
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#2771048 - 02/03/12 10:44 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: sheepheadslayer]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA


Quote:
He told me to contact the MTA and have them on top of this ASAP. Im sure they are but anybody that doesnt belong this a great time to join. He will fight it but he's only one voice. We need to contact all reps ASAP.



+1..

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2771101 - 02/03/12 11:31 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
jparrucci Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
Well written letter jonnyp. Just so we are all on the same page here, let's get a few things established. Body gripping traps 220s and maybe 160s are dangerous to dogs, and the problem is not going away. Hunters and trappers both want the same thing, to enjoy the outdoors. None of us here want body gripping traps to go away. A happy medium is changing some season dates around and not allowing ground set 220s on uplands during a certain timeframe. They will be allow on private grounds at any point, and in wetlands at any point (not the dumb wording in the current bill). This would give bird hunters a window to hunt without worry of dogs getting into traps, and give trappers the right to continue to use an effective trap. Any arguments with this?

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2771114 - 02/03/12 11:39 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
mnbullrider Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
To whom it may concern,

The proposed usage ban of the body gripping trap in Minnesota from Rep. John Ward & Senator Chuck Wiger will affect many legal and ethical trappers negatively across our state.

The usage of body gripping traps only allowed in sets higher than 5’ off the ground or completely submerged under water will be a blow to many trappers that will push them out of the sport forever. A way of life that has been in our state since the early days of settlement.

The northern region of our state that traps for marten, fisher, bobcat the 5’ restriction will drastically reduced harvest numbers and with the bobcat a high value fur species that do not readily climb will all but take most trappers out of the sport as the 220 conibear is the most effective and sometimes only means to harvest these animals in short seasons and heavy snow conditions. Without harvest of these highly efficient predators sporting bird numbers will plummet in time. Disease will affect many numbers of animals that could have been avoided. Starvation will come into play as predator numbers rise and prey species numbers decline, Domestic predation will increase with the decline of prey for these predators. Trappers along with their essential equipment are the front line of defense for correct management and well being of many animals in our state.

With use of completely submerged body gripping traps around waterways will make harvest on beaver, muskrat, mink, raccoon, otter also a futile attempt. Without control on species such as muskrat and beaver our roadways, lake shores, river banks will deteriorate and produced damage that in some cases will be non reversible. The non or limited harvest of these animals will effect a wide spectrum such as spawning of sport fish, valuable timber sales will be lost to flooding, farmers will suffer crop damages. This change will not only be on a ecological level but also a economic level to the state.

The use of the body grip trap in the state has a wide use and is an essential tool to the ecosystem and trapper of Minnesota. This will affect some full time trappers in a way that will not allow them to produce an income to support their family’s needs. Trapping is not a thing of the past but a part of our present and needed in our future. I am a 3rd generation trapper in my family, If a proposal of a non efficient way to use the body grip trap is passed, our only land set allowed with a 3 day tending period I will be forced to put my trapping heritage aside for most parts of the year as time constraints will not allow me or other part time trappers to enjoy a tradition passed down from generation to generation.

The states trappers have been at the fore front of education on trapping, mandatory education prior to legal trap setting and license purchase, adding education into our game law booklet on proper release methods of the body gripping trap. We are a proactive and conscientious group passionate about our sport and way of life. The proposed changes to our methods of uses on the body gripping trap look to mirror those of other states why follow when we can lead in better applications to benefit all. Our state is one of the most diverse in our nation for outdoor sporting activities a cookie cutter style of management will not address our issues or opposing parties concerns.

This change I feel will be a detriment to our ecosystem, economy, and way of life for many honest families in Minnesota. Please keep these people in mind with this concerning issue.

Sincerely,

Jon Dahl
Bemidji, MN, 56601




Letter I have sent out this morning to as many government contacts i can think of I'm no poet by anymeans but hopefully a bug in an ear.

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2771125 - 02/03/12 11:49 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA

Quote:
Any arguments with this?


That sounds workable to me. And if they forget about the airborne part...

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2771129 - 02/03/12 11:52 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mnbullrider]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA
Looks good.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2771139 - 02/03/12 12:02 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: motley man]
Trapper J Offline
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Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 46
Loc: Ironton MN
Can someone point me in the direction of where I can see the Bill that Ward & wiger are going to propose ?
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#2771141 - 02/03/12 12:03 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
Trashguy Offline
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Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 73
Loc: Longville, MN USA
You are probably going to get arguments from "non hunters' who use the woods/resource for other reasons all through out the year. I for one love to hunt sheds come snow melt, but am more worried now than ever about my Springer ending up in a trap. Changing the trapping/hunting seasons, won't effect their use of the resource. Still think flagging the area where traps are set would help. I know it has been said that it didn't fly with bear baiting (I still saw those signs in the woods last fall by the way) or may lead to more theft, but I'm not going venture into that area, so I'm not going to rip off your traps. Maybe you would end up with less theft/traffic.

Another thing I was thinking about. Some trappers are saying that having the proposed change of setting off the ground, that it is not near as effective and they may just give it up. Won't less trappers/harvest end up with more demand and higher prices? Maybe end up with same or close to $$ coming in? Bet if the proposed changes come about, the first trappers to give it up, would be the novice/sport or lazy ones. Again leaving more areas open and more game to trap.
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#2771147 - 02/03/12 12:11 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trashguy]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA
Quote:
Won't less trappers/harvest end up with more demand and higher prices? Maybe end up with same or close to $$ coming in?


It would be nice if it worked that way, but it really doesn't. Wild fur is dependent on market conditions and demand - mostly from foreign markets, and the competition is with ranch fur.


Quote:
Bet if the proposed changes come about, the first trappers to give it up, would be the novice/sport or lazy ones.


When prices rise is when you get the inexperienced trappers.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2771419 - 02/03/12 05:28 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
RangerJack Offline
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 210
Loc: Minnesota
I'm upset that in the Star Tribune, two of the people complaining about their dogs getting killed are people that have or still trap. If my dog gets caught in someone's conibear, I'm not going to complain to a bunch of lefties about it. good grief.

Also, before this all happened I purchased hundreds of dollars of conibears....if I can't use them next fall I'll be [PoorWordUsage] off. And I didn't get a single 220. Just 110's and 160's. If I can't use those tiny little harmless traps, I won't know what to think about the state of Minnesota anymore.
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#2771455 - 02/03/12 06:18 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: RangerJack]
jparrucci Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
160s are not tiny. I can almost start to squeeze the spring on it, and my dog can get his head in it easily. 110 is something even a small hunting dog would have trouble getting past his nose, and can be freed with no tools.

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2771670 - 02/03/12 10:40 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
RangerJack Offline
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 210
Loc: Minnesota
For some reason I wrote 160's but meant 120's. Which are the same as a 110 with more spring power. my mistake. 160's are dangerous for smaller dogs...I don't use land set conibears tho
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#2771686 - 02/03/12 11:28 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: RangerJack]
Gordie Offline

HotSpotOutdoors Staff Development Administrator

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 12291
Loc: Zimmerman Minn
I really want to get back into trapping but this is some of the kinda of stuff I hate hearing about BAN all body grip traps. Then what?
Whats next someones dog gets in a leg hold trap and is now lame because of it. Do you outlaw all traps.
It will start with body grip traps then keep going.

What happens if that dog kills the farmers chicken or someones pet cat or another dog? Do they have to exterminate all the dogs? That would be silly just like this proposal for body grip traps.
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#2772531 - 02/05/12 11:10 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: motley man]
Saw557 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 136
Here are my thoughts....Its a matter of simple math grouse season opens mid September and runs through the end of December the daily limit is 5 with 10 in possession. Fisher/Martin & Bobcat season opens the last weekend of November and runs for 9 days Any bird hunter worth their salt should have their limit well before the end of the season and before trapping season opens.So the question is what are they doing in the woods during trapping season. No bird hunter their right mind would be out during rifle season myself included. So if they know they may run into traps why are they out there. Maybe the solution is to close grouse season Nov. 1 This whole issue has been blown out of proportion by the media and a small group of anti's that wont be happy until there isnt a trap left in the woods. As far as two state legislators introducing a trapping bill aren't there way more important things to worry about...oh yeah we have to build the Vikings a new stadium
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#2772784 - 02/05/12 05:44 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
9339za Offline
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Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern MN
As a responsible trapper I support the move to get body grips off the ground. Setting them on the ground isn't necessary and trappers need to stop doing it. It's hurting responsible trappers like myself who do NOT set these deadly traps on the ground. I'm already losing access to private land because of the irresponsible trappers who set body grips where dogs can reach them and be killed and I NEVER set them on the ground. It is inexcusable to kill someone's dog. And to do it because you are too stubborn to change or unwilling to listen just makes it worse.

Right here on this site is an ad for dog proof coon traps. http://www.pcsoutdoors.com/raccoon.aspx

I like them because they are fast, lightweight and you can set them where you can't safely set a body grip or even a foothold. That means I have more places to set and more coons at the end of the day because I don't have to drive by those places. And a LOT more to take to the buyer.

Coons climb like crazy if you've got good bait so why not move the body grips off the ground and stop killing people's dogs before you get responsible trappers banned?
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#2772803 - 02/05/12 06:30 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
Saw557 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 136
OK then 1 post joined the forum yesterday hmmmmmmmmmmmmm???????
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#2772854 - 02/05/12 07:32 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
Ray1 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 620
Loc: moorhead, Mn.
Originally Posted By: 9339za
As a responsible trapper I support the move to get body grips off the ground. Setting them on the ground isn't necessary and trappers need to stop doing it. It's hurting responsible trappers like myself who do NOT set these deadly traps on the ground. I'm already losing access to private land because of the irresponsible trappers who set body grips where dogs can reach them and be killed and I NEVER set them on the ground. It is inexcusable to kill someone's dog. And to do it because you are too stubborn to change or unwilling to listen just makes it worse.

Right here on this site is an ad for dog proof coon traps. http://www.pcsoutdoors.com/raccoon.aspx

I like them because they are fast, lightweight and you can set them where you can't safely set a body grip or even a foothold. That means I have more places to set and more coons at the end of the day because I don't have to drive by those places. And a LOT more to take to the buyer.

Coons climb like crazy if you've got good bait so why not move the body grips off the ground and stop killing people's dogs before you get responsible trappers banned?
No trapper wants more restrictions. You sound like an anti. This is your first post and you go calling everyone that sets 220s on the ground irresponsible in your own words. I am very responsible trapper and i hope to keep 220s on the ground. I will use dog proof traps where ever there could be a dog present during trapping season. But why is it all of a sudden a trappers fault if a dog escapes their owner and happends to go into a trap that is set legally and away from any farms or public land. This is such a crock that you would want to do this to the trappers in general. This is why i call you fake.

2008 King of the cats champion
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#2772874 - 02/05/12 08:06 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Ray1]
Saw557 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 136
+1 I think there alot of trolls and antis trying to stir the pot or maybe they are just ignorant to the fact one more restriction is another nail in the coffin. Like I said above close small game Nov. 1 (after all any law abiding better than thou hunter will have their limit) and it will avoid many of the problems. As a side note I am so sick and tired of the media replaying the same stories over and over the Duluth News ran the same story today thats been in at least two other papers lately.
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#2772876 - 02/05/12 08:08 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Ray1]
9339za Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern MN
So anyone who thinks different from you is an anti? I don't buy it. Accepting change is part of our future. We either accept those changes or we perish as a sport. It's that simple. The woods has changed much since I started and we need to change along with it.

Maybe you can explain how a grouse hunter is supposed to hunt and keep his dog safe from a body grip trap?

Trying to all blame dog deaths on irresponsible dog owners just makes us look stupid.
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#2772886 - 02/05/12 08:18 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
Ray1 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 620
Loc: moorhead, Mn.
I am not blaming dog owners. I am a dog owner myself. I hunt grouse and pheasants. But if my dog ran away from my control why would it be the trappers fault. I understand there is change too but i dont like people taking away anything from us as trappers and hunters. Once one thing goes then they will just want to take more. Why not fight for something that has been around for years? A EDUCATED HUNTER COULD KEEP HIS DOG SAFE BY LEARNING WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND CARRYING A SET OF CONIBEAR SETTERS.

2008 King of the cats champion
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#2772905 - 02/05/12 08:42 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Ray1]
jparrucci Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
Sorry ray, but this isn't about out of control wild dogs. My dog works close and I can see him at all times, doesn't mean he still isn't at risk. Closing all bird seasons on Nov 1 isn't gonna happen either, that would have given us a 13 day pheasant season this year. Dec 1 closing of grouse may be realistic since it opens earlier. FYI, that would give trappers a longer season than more hunters.

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2772920 - 02/05/12 08:56 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Our fisher martin season is only 9 days long.

Another aspect to keep in mind is the latest I have heard the proposal is to ban the 220 on the water also, unless completely submerged. That opener is October 20'ish every year and is a small window until freeze up.

Men I hate to say it but this is start of the end. First the 220, then snares, then leg holds. After that has all been taken care of it will be use of, shock collars, then dogs all together, semi automatic rifles/shotguns and eventaully the taking of wild game.

They got the ball rolling now. Puttng a nail in the coffin of the trappers, turning the outdoorsmans against each other and growing a larger following all using the common household dog.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2772930 - 02/05/12 09:06 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Ray1]
Trashguy Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 73
Loc: Longville, MN USA
I wasn't going to post anymore about this, because I'm not going to change the way some of you feel and I'm not going to change the way I feel either. But could you one of you trappers that keeps bringing up "keep your dog under control replies" answer me one last thing? How am I while busting the brush or hunting the edges of swamps, Aspen edges, or just plain heavy cover,etc, supposed to control my dog when she/he is out in front of me 40-50 feet and she smells & finds that baited five gallon bucket in a split second? Not all of us walk down nicely groomed tails, or wide open logging roads with clear vision many yards left and right. Who do you think is going to find that baited trap first the instinct/nose of my dog or my old eyes. Especially if the set is covered with snow, pine bows, etc. Please tell me with an honest answer and not some smart &%*&^ answers, like keep the dog on a leash. I mean be realistic please. We don't all have the fore mentioned highly trained $10,000 dog. And another thing that has been mentioned, is shorting changing the grouse season, I personally don't have a problem with that, but I bet you half the people that own dogs and are worried about these traps don't even hunt and use the woods/fields with their dogs with them for a variety of other things, year round.
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#2772959 - 02/05/12 09:27 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
swampman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
Few questions for ya 9339za
How exactly has the woods changed since you started? when did you start? hunter and trapper numbers are both lower than they were 30 yrs ago
How many bobcats you think you are going to catch in a elavated body grip?
If you set your dogproofs in a place you are even afraid to set a foothold what about somebodys cat? dp's are'nt cat proof what is a responsible trapper supposed to do about that?
Just curious to your answers
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#2772966 - 02/05/12 09:33 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trashguy]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Quote:
and not some smart &%*&^ answers, like keep the dog on a leash. I mean be realistic please.


As much as you don't want to hear it the leash comment is about the best way the trapper has been able to explain to the dog hunter what taking away the 220 will do. It is as a ridiculous idea that cripples the sport just as putting gun dogs on a 4' leash would destroy most bird hunting.

Just take a breath and think what would it be like if the State of Minnesota passed a leash law on all dogs on all state lands? Just think how that would affect your success. Now taking away the 220 on both land and now water is as crippling to the trapper as keeping a birddog on a four foot leash would be.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2772990 - 02/05/12 09:55 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
swampman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
Jonny p your pm box is full
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#2773008 - 02/05/12 10:13 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
Trashguy Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 73
Loc: Longville, MN USA
Jonny P, I hear you loud and clear, really I do, (-: but that doesn't answer the question I asked. You gave a comparison, not an realistic answer to my question, about how I am suppose to keep my dog under control, as I wrote above. If the leash idea is ridiculous, what do you suggest? I guess then the answer from the people that trap (notice I didn't say "your side") has to be stay out of the woods during trapping season. I know if some changes are made to the way you have to trap, it may lead to fewer $$ for you, but you will still be able to do what you love, be it differently. If I loose months out of the year not being able to enjoy those woods with my dog, how do you put a $$ amount on that? confused
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#2773030 - 02/05/12 10:47 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
walleye365 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 704
Loc: Crow Wing Co.
Im lookin at this from the outside lookin in. I hunt (no dog) im not a trapper its pretty clear to me that Mr. Ward is worryed more about votes then anything ok theres more doghunters/doglovers then trappers i would think and i see only one side being asked to change or possiably made to change something wrong here IMO. Iv never come across one of these traps and i put on hundreds of miles each year on foot.Not a fan of the government changeing game and fish laws either once they start one never knows what else they might want to tinker with. GoodLuck
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#2773092 - 02/06/12 05:55 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
9339za Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern MN
Originally Posted By: swampman
Few questions for ya 9339za
How exactly has the woods changed since you started? when did you start? hunter and trapper numbers are both lower than they were 30 yrs ago
How many bobcats you think you are going to catch in a elavated body grip?
If you set your dogproofs in a place you are even afraid to set a foothold what about somebodys cat? dp's are'nt cat proof what is a responsible trapper supposed to do about that?
Just curious to your answers


When I started in MN in the 60's I could set next to the trail and never worry about a hunter with a dog. Now I don't know a single trail that doesn't get covered by someone with a dog. It's not just hunters either.

No one is saying trap bobcats off the ground. We have footholds that work better than body grips.

You are not going to catch cats with sweet bait in dog proof coon traps.
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#2773096 - 02/06/12 06:00 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
9339za Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern MN
How many more dogs do you think we can kill before we kill the wrong one and really get slammed in the legislature?

Change is coming in how we use body grips. Either we accept change and stop killing dogs or we lose them completely. Half steps will only postpone the inevitable and make it worse. Is that what you want? What about our kids? WIll they trap or do you even care?
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#2773105 - 02/06/12 06:16 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: motley man]
FCspringer Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Alexandria Lakes Area MN
I think this bill is a joke. In 20 some years trapping I cought 1 dog. He was tresspassing 2 miles from where he had permission. The 220 was wraped on the Labs head. Did not hurt the dog. The dog went to the owner and he could not figure it out so he took the dog to the vet, who easily took the trap off. The man called me and asked me to pay the bill. I laughed and then replied that if he wanted to pay for a trespassing ticket and trap tampering ticket, and a new trap, he could keep it. He gave me my trap back and have had no trouble ever again. If dog owners avoid high risk areas there is no need for legislation. That would ruin the use of the most humane method of trapping coon. A upland predator and nest raider. Most farmers or land owners will tell you if there is a trapper on the land for crying out loud. Avoid areas in road ditch culvert areas, creek edges near a road, abandon farm sites, small game trail areas leading from a woods to a corn field and you will most likely never in your life run into one, Ever. Trappers wish to avoid you, you are a problem for him. To call them names like thieves, thugs and so on is rubbish. I am a pheasant hunter, breeder trainer, lover of dogs and a trapper. How can I trap my land and not have dogs get caught? Perhaps the dogs caught were in places they had no permission, or failed to ask if there was a trapper, or a stray off lead free running all over? Yes Or a very rare accident. Millions more dogs are killed by cars, perhaps the bleeders want to stop driving?

When you think you are smarter then your dog ask yourself "who cleans up who's doodoo"
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#2773119 - 02/06/12 06:38 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: walleye365]
Saw557 Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 136
Everyone is talking compromise so how's this. No 220's on the ground until Dec1 close grouse season on Dec 1 and keep the current conibear water set rules ( half submerged) bird hunter will still have a month and half to two month season and trappers won't have something unreasonable stuffed down their throats
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#2773126 - 02/06/12 06:49 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Saw557]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA


Quote:
Everyone is talking compromise so how's this. No 220's on the ground until Dec1 close grouse season on Dec 1 and keep the current conibear water set rules ( half submerged) bird hunter will still have a month and half to two month season and trappers won't have something unreasonable stuffed down their throats



This to me is an entirely reasonable and workable solution for both sides.

This particular season was worse than normal for dog/conibear conflicts because of the warm weather - in the north zone anyway. I ran into a couple of grouse hunters with dogs in December after deer rifle season this year. Don't ever recall that happening before.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2773132 - 02/06/12 06:57 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
jparrucci Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2773139 - 02/06/12 07:02 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
Ray1 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 620
Loc: moorhead, Mn.
Compromise would be EDUCATION on both sides.

2008 King of the cats champion
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#2773141 - 02/06/12 07:03 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA


As far as the coon thing goes, I watched a seminar put on by a guy at the trappers convention a year or two ago who strictly used dog proof traps. He is a longliner and catches high numbers of coon with dogproofs, so that's proof to me that it works. And probably makes more sense anyway in pheasant country. Don't remember his name..

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2773143 - 02/06/12 07:04 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Saw557]
Trashguy Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 73
Loc: Longville, MN USA
Originally Posted By: Saw557
Everyone is talking compromise so how's this. No 220's on the ground until Dec1 close grouse season on Dec 1 and keep the current conibear water set rules ( half submerged) bird hunter will still have a month and half to two month season and trappers won't have something unreasonable stuffed down their throats


I think that might work for a percentage of the grouse hunters. The problem with your compromise/suggestion it does not benefit the non hunter. There are 1887 signatures as of right now on that petition that's out there. What percentage of those signatures do you think are hunters versus non hunters? Not to down play your compromise, but there are plenty of people with other interest that use this resource too, not just we hunters and trappers. Just thought I would through that out there again, because I think they may be the majority. smile
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#2773147 - 02/06/12 07:08 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trashguy]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA

Quote:
I think that might work for a percentage of the grouse hunters. The problem with your compromise/suggestion it does not benefit the non hunter. There are 1887 signatures as of right now on that petition that's out there. What percentage of those signatures do you think are hunters versus non hunters? Not to down play your compromise, but there are plenty of people with other interest that use this resource too, not just we hunters and trappers. Just thought I would through that out there again, because I think they may be the majority.


Don't believe that would be an issue at all in the north, because there aren't many folks out tramping around in the woods after Dec. 1st on a normal year. Don't really know about down south. Again, the northern area is completely different than the southern.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2773156 - 02/06/12 07:18 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trashguy]
mainbutter Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 3056
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: Trashguy
We don't all have the fore mentioned highly trained $10,000 dog.


We have a mutt that we got from a rescue, and over the past 2 years we've put hard work into making sure that he is REALLY good at heeling and recalling. I call him away from chasing squirrels at a dead run all the time, if you can't call your dog away from a motionless pile of meat, [PoorWordUsage], or other "dog-interesting" object, he should be on a leash. If your dog is out of eyesight, you should call him back to you. If he runs off all the time, work on heeling for ANY accompanied travel on foot.

It's not about the amount of money you have to put into a dog, but the amount of time and hard work.
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#2773165 - 02/06/12 07:26 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
leech~~ Online   content
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Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 7684
Loc: Northern state of mind
On my way to Ely ice fishing this weekend I seen three different sets of dogs running fields and wood edges a long way from any farm and not one person insight! Just as Trappers need to be responsible for their trap sets. Dog owners need to be just as responsible for their animals! I'm sure these dogs didn't know where the propriety lines were to know if they were on their own land without any traps set out there.

____________________________________________________________
Cooking over an open fire with a stick is all fun and games!
Until someone loses a Weiner!
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#2773174 - 02/06/12 07:34 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: leech~~]
swamptiger Offline
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Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA


Quote:
Dog owners need to be just as responsible for their animals!


Absolutely. Don't know about your area, but in my neck of the woods, we have a long-standing unwritten code of how we handle dogs who run wild.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2773176 - 02/06/12 07:35 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mainbutter]
Trashguy Offline
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Registered: 02/10/02
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Loc: Longville, MN USA
Hey mainbutter, just curious, how long you been hunting? Ever hunted grouse, or just squirrels?
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#2773186 - 02/06/12 07:45 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trashguy]
swampman Offline
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Registered: 12/31/02
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Loc: buffalo mn
I see this as a dog hunter trapper conflict only, people have access to plenty of places to walk there dogs without fear of traps, county/city parks as just a couple examples, while they may pay taxes on the other public lands that does'nt give me the right to set traps in parks that I pay taxes on. I think there is a workable solution to this without caving to a media news story about a few isolated instances.
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#2773266 - 02/06/12 08:56 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: RangerJack]
mallardnwalleye Online   content
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I trapped before there was widespread use of Conibears. It isn't that difficult! That said I find it hard to believe that these hunting dogs are dying in 220's with there owner's nearby and that people can't get there dogs out of them. A 330, yes that is a dangerous trap. My grandfather actually trapped a theif in a barn once with one and both my brother and I had bruised dents on our ankle from getting too close to sets that we had on beaver slides. We didn't have all kinds of problems before with 220's, what has changed? Or is someone confusing a 220 for a 330? Are people letting there dogs roam unattended? I think these cases need to be examined further.
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#2773339 - 02/06/12 09:55 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mallardnwalleye]
jparrucci Online   content
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Registered: 03/19/02
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There is a big difference between a free roaming dog and a hunting dog quartering in front of you. A dog could easily find a trap a person cannot see. Education helps but it is not going to be the only solution for this issue. 220 can kill a dog instantly.

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2773394 - 02/06/12 10:39 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
sheepheadslayer Offline
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Registered: 02/01/02
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Loc: waterville mn
If you would all do each other a favor and call your local CO and ask them how many dogs in trap case they have worked or seen. Spoke with a 23 year vet and he had one case of a 220 on a dogs nose. He took it off of the dog (which was a stray) and took it to the pound. Thats it 23 years and the only one.
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#2773482 - 02/06/12 11:31 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: sheepheadslayer]
jparrucci Online   content
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Registered: 03/19/02
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Do us a favor and call all 6 dog owners who died this year due to traps.

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2773514 - 02/06/12 11:58 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
jparrucci Online   content
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Registered: 03/19/02
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Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
Again just to be clear, any restrictions should only apply to public lands.

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2773530 - 02/06/12 12:08 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
swampman Offline
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Loc: buffalo mn
The truth of the matter is a hunter and his dog are at more risk driving to your hunting spot than actually engaging in the sport. You can make all the laws and legislation you want and bad things are still going to happen. Sorry. We can outlaw guns and people will still be shot,we can outlaw bodygrip traps and there will still be a dog somwhere die in one it is unfair and I am sorry. I have lost 3 dogs to cancer 1 to car and none to a trap. I contracted cancer 2 years ago not from any lifestlye habit but by a unlucky draw of the cards. Of all the scary thing in life the chance that my dog may come across a 220 trap set somewhere is one I don't lose any sleep over.
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#2773550 - 02/06/12 12:22 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
Trashguy Offline
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+1 jparrucci

and long as the subject of risk has come up again, why can't the person who sets that trap and kills someones dog be held responsible with a fine or what ever? If we dog owners are to take the so claimed small risk, why not that trapper also? I mean if its such a small risk, you wouldn't ever have to worry about paying restitution for that dog. Its never going to happen anyway, so why not? Probably because your answer is "you don't want to risk it"? If your other answer is you don't have to, because what you are doing is legal, well so am I when I'm out there with my dog doing our thing. We are not talking about stray dogs here either or private land, but dogs that are with their owners on public land. frown
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#2773616 - 02/06/12 01:33 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trashguy]
swampman Offline
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Loc: buffalo mn
I am with you guys on the private land part but thats not the way the guy wrote the bill up. I would personally have no problem with the restitution if that would make you happy it could even be fairly cheap every trapper throw in 5 dollars to a fund, 5 dollars times say 6000 trappers should make a good fund, problem with that is who is going to make a restitution value we both know thats not going to work. I try to get along with the hunters as most trappers do, I live in the pheasent range and don't set bodygrips on wma or wpa's I usually wait un till at least a hour after sun rise to go out and check my muskrat traps I can legally be out there at 5am but wait so I don't mess with the duck hunters to much and reduce the chance of getting shot.
If we have to go to shorter split seasons so we never conflict ok , everybody loses, hunters(I am one) are not the sole land owners of the public property either.
I am sure the anti's are all just loving this, playing right into there hands won't be long trappers and hunters will all be out there trying to catch something in a sack, in case you guys have'nt been paying attention for the last 30 yrs or so there is a whole lot of people afraid of our guns. I don't see this as just a 220 issue but something bigger.
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#2773637 - 02/06/12 01:52 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
Trashguy Offline
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Actually, swampman, restitution wouldn't make me happy. I was just using what I posted above as a comparison/analogy on the risk thing that is always being brought up. smile Enjoy the rest of your day, Trashguy
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#2773673 - 02/06/12 02:39 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trashguy]
9339za Offline
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Registered: 02/04/12
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Loc: Northern MN
Actually the best ammo we can give the anti's is a dead dog. Cornish isn't doing us any favors either.

I'm hearing news that at least 25 dogs have been documented as dying in body grips in the past few years. That guy Jason at the DNR said they don't have a clue how many dogs are being killed because they don't keep track.

Laws are made for all of us and just because most trappers have never caught a dog and never will that doesn't mean we don't need to change the way we use body grips.
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#2773764 - 02/06/12 04:58 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: RangerJack]
FCspringer Offline
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Registered: 01/05/09
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Loc: Alexandria Lakes Area MN
I see no need for change at all.


Edited by FCspringer (02/06/12 05:07 PM)

When you think you are smarter then your dog ask yourself "who cleans up who's doodoo"
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#2773777 - 02/06/12 05:20 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Ray1]
9339za Offline
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Registered: 02/04/12
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We're only allowed 5 cats, 5 marten with 2 replaced by fisher, and 4 otter for a total of 14 animals. I'm still trying to figure out why any professional trapper needs to set two hundred 220's for weeks on end to catch 14 animals.

If you don't mind my asking other than otter what are you trapping with 220's in the water that you have to move the traps to dry land after freeze-up Jonny? They're too big for rats and mink and too small for beaver.
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#2773783 - 02/06/12 05:28 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: FCspringer]
Saw557 Offline
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So I offer up a solution of closing grouse season Dec 1 and opening trapping the same day and keeping the trapping laws the same as they are now and there is no discussion just more bickering about who is right or wrong thats not how this is going to be solved. I am not looking at this just from a trappers point of view I also run a couple of expensive mutts 30 plus days a year by the time December comes around the dogs and I both have had enough the antis are just loving this and looking for more its time to quit the [PoorWordUsage] and start talking about a solution it seems the guys against the trapping are a whole lot less open to a compromise
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#2773787 - 02/06/12 05:32 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
Saw557 Offline
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[quote=9339za]We're only allowed 5 cats, 5 marten with 2 replaced by fisher, and 4 otter for a total of 14 animals. I'm still trying to figure out why any professional trapper needs to set two hundred 220's for weeks on end to catch 14 animals.

If you don't mind my asking other than otter what are you trapping with 220's in the water that you have to move the traps to dry land after freeze-up Jonny? They're too big for rats and mink and too small for beaver. [/quote

And you are allowed 5 birds a day 10 in possession so what are you doing in the woods in December....I just couldn't pass it up


Edited by Saw557 (02/06/12 05:49 PM)
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#2773826 - 02/06/12 06:29 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Saw557]
Ybone Online   content
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You can hunt grouse even though you shot your limit earlier as long as you eat some. So that should answer your question as to why they can legally hunt in December just like you can fish walleyes in December even though you may have caught a limit in June. Once consumed they no longer count toward your possession limit. I also wondered why set hundreds of traps for 14 animals and by the time the fisher/martin/bobcat season is open you should have your otter.
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#2773827 - 02/06/12 06:29 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
swampman Offline
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Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
Originally Posted By: swamptiger


As far as the coon thing goes, I watched a seminar put on by a guy at the trappers convention a year or two ago who strictly used dog proof traps. He is a longliner and catches high numbers of coon with dogproofs, so that's proof to me that it works. And probably makes more sense anyway in pheasant country. Don't remember his name..


Probably Jim blakely
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#2773850 - 02/06/12 07:06 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
Jonny P Offline
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Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Quote:
If you don't mind my asking other than otter what are you trapping with 220's in the water that you have to move the traps to dry land after freeze-up Jonny? They're too big for rats and mink and too small for beaver.



I use 220s for rats and 220s with bottom pan triggers for mink/otter on cross over runs. I pursue larger bog rats that are hard pressed to fit into a 110. With a old trigger modification trick I also tend to not catch as many kits or should a say the next years matures. It actually works great as a management tool. I have used 110s with very poor results, misses or poorly gripped adults and the kit catch goes way up. Plus the areas I have rats I have otter running around as they are eating the rats. With 110 sets those are misses and with 220s they are catches. In today’s markets the more efficient and diverse your sets can be you are the better you will do.

If my rat catches drop below 30 a day I move my lines. Hope that can help put in perspective the harvest levels of the professional. It is not a hobby or something to pass time on the weekends. It is 70 hour a week job that pays my bills. And much of it is on request from land owners and other organizations that had a fit when I stopped trapping their area or move on. I actually get calls from development associations asking me to come in and trap the rats out of the boat canals and water front properties. Of course those are denied due to pets and safety.


For me this has very little to do with on land bait sets but water sets or water’s edge sets miles up rivers and bog flowages. That is where this is going to hit me.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2773886 - 02/06/12 07:29 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
Gordie Offline

HotSpotOutdoors Staff Development Administrator

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 12291
Loc: Zimmerman Minn
You really improve your success rate running more traps and if your doing it for a living the faster you fill your taggs the sooner your on to other things that make you money.
14 animals is not a easy task sound simple just throw a few traps out but it really doest work that way.
220 work great for rats and mink if you mod the triggers and its a easy set for them and time is the essence when your checking and reseting and massive trap line.
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#2773889 - 02/06/12 07:31 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Gordie]
Gordie Offline

HotSpotOutdoors Staff Development Administrator

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 12291
Loc: Zimmerman Minn
Sorry I didnt see your post JP
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#2773900 - 02/06/12 07:42 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Gordie]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Originally Posted By: Gordie
Sorry I didnt see your post JP


Ya, how dare you! laugh

I also want to add for otter I and my partner (79 year old grandfather)had both pan bait sets just for otter and on land otter slide sets with 220s. Every single otter came from a on land 220. Was not for the 220 that would have been Decembers fuel bill for his house swimming away.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2773935 - 02/06/12 08:13 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Gordie]
Grayfox Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 403
Loc: Gods Country
Just curious how many other states are still allowing the 220 to be set on dry land with no restrictions?

I just checked Michigan's trapping rules and they only allow 160's on dry land, without bait, to be set in trails with the top of trap no higher than 8" above the ground. And any 160's or 220's must be 4' off the ground or be in an enclosure with no greater than a 6" opening and recessed a minimum of 6" from the front of the enclosure.

I've only been trapping a few years here in Wisconsin but since I started our 220's have always been required to be elevated 5 feet off the ground or be recessed in an enclosure with a 50 sq in hole, with the trap recessed 7 inches. Can't use dryland snares here either. Snares must be at least 1/2 submerged in water. We can only use cable restraints with relaxing washers and cable stops and only from Dec.1st to Feb.15 and for fox and coyote only.

Any trappers from other states care to weigh in on their states position on using the 220 in dryland applications?
Rob
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#2773973 - 02/06/12 08:51 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Ybone]
Saw557 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 136
Originally Posted By: Ybone
You can hunt grouse even though you shot your limit earlier as long as you eat some. So that should answer your question as to why they can legally hunt in December just like you can fish walleyes in December even though you may have caught a limit in June. Once consumed they no longer count toward your possession limit. I also wondered why set hundreds of traps for 14 animals and by the time the fisher/martin/bobcat season is open you should have your otter.


Did you see the part me runni g my dogs 30 days during bird season I know how it works and I know the possession limit is widely over looked. If you have ever trapped you would know you don't put out 14 traps and catch 14 animals you woe also realize that requiring water sets to. E completely submerged is not practical. What it boils down to is you have a bunch of people that do t really know what they are talking about jumping on the media and antis circus wagon with a hidden agenda
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#2774035 - 02/06/12 09:57 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
FCspringer Offline
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Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Alexandria Lakes Area MN
Originally Posted By: 9339za
We're only allowed 5 cats, 5 marten with 2 replaced by fisher, and 4 otter for a total of 14 animals. I'm still trying to figure out why any professional trapper needs to set two hundred 220's for weeks on end to catch 14 animals.

If you don't mind my asking other than otter what are you trapping with 220's in the water that you have to move the traps to dry land after freeze-up Jonny? They're too big for rats and mink and too small for beaver.


Many of us used them solely on coon. Never in water, 330's for beaver in water. I just don't get this whole deal. Ask how many dogs are killed by cars again? Come on. I don't know any one that traps on public land with 220's. A trapper wishes to avoid the hunter at all costs. How many traps one sets is like wondering why someone would rather work 40 hrs instead of 5.

When you think you are smarter then your dog ask yourself "who cleans up who's doodoo"
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#2774055 - 02/06/12 10:43 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: FCspringer]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Originally Posted By: FCspringer
A trapper wishes to avoid the hunter at all costs.


VERY TRUE! Hunters, hikers and many outdoor enthusiasts unknowingly leave scent marks behind trappers are very conscious of. We as trappers are not donned in rubber boots, rubber gloves and carry an arsenal of cover scents just because we like to look like Gumby or smell like a skunk, we have good reason for it. Not to mention dogs have a tendency to urinate...on everything.. Any trapper worth his or her salt sees a hunter or figures the area is heavily hunted should realize they are wasting his/her time and turn around for better areas.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2774477 - 02/07/12 11:07 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
mallardnwalleye Online   content
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 959
Loc: Mahtomedi MN
Originally Posted By: jparrucci
Do us a favor and call all 6 dog owners who died this year due to traps.
I think some of these the people killed the dogs to theoretically put them out of their misery. When they really didn't have to. The others how far away were they and how long were the dogs unattended? How big were the dogs? Did these people just give up ?It is a little emotionally brutal to see a dog get in one and try to release it but I still am wondering why there weren't more dogs dying defore. A 220 is a strong trap and a small or med dog needs to get out of it fairly quickly but I am scratching my head as 220's weren't that huge threat to dogs back when I trapped and I have seen labs get hit by them but they usually slide right off. Are the traps bigger than back in the 80's are fur prices up this year so everybody and there brother is back out trapping? It all doesn't add up.
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#2774832 - 02/07/12 04:46 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mallardnwalleye]
9339za Offline
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Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern MN
That's interesting. The bog rats I catch in beaver traps are even smaller than lake rats and a lot smaller than river rats. I still can't figure out why someone would use bulky, heavier, harder to set, and more expensive traps to catch rats.

I don't find otter that hard to catch under water or under ice. If it's pinched enough I'll use a 220 but if it's wider I'll use the 330.
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#2774890 - 02/07/12 05:50 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
One good reason is simply overhead. Instead of having 200 size 110 for rats and another 100 size 220 for otter, fisher martin, bobcat I only have to own one size that is very universal and does it all. Also as I stated before my rat traps often catch me otter, beaver and other water based furbearers where the 110 would not.

Same reason most bird hunter use a .12 gauge verses a .410. Yes the .410 is lighter, easier to handle and will do the job, but the .12 gauge is much more efficient and has a wider range of uses. This includes smaller doves and grouse up to the B-52 sized to goose. Now only one gun is needed verses a .410 for grouse, .12 gauge for pheasant and a .10 gauge for waterfowl. One mid range tool that covers it all just makes sense.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2777152 - 02/10/12 04:06 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
FCspringer Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Alexandria Lakes Area MN
As to the one who said call the 6 now famous owners. I would like to. I would like the actual "Facts" before I go after someones livelihood. Can you in fact prove these stories are all true? No most likely not.
About the 80's, Nothing has changed but the stories since the 80's. It's always been anti's of some sort against trapping in general. Weather it be upset dog owners or peta, and so on. That will never change. If use is restricted on public land, thats one thing. But if you let your dog out to run the world, it's your fault, if your trespassing it's your fault, if you fail to ask a land owner if there is a trapper out there when you ask to hunt, it's your fault. Not the trap or the trappers fault. The real fact is it is so rare, you are far better off to worry about a dog getting hit by a car. In 35 years running dogs all over, I have never had one in a trap. But have had a couple killed by cars.

When you think you are smarter then your dog ask yourself "who cleans up who's doodoo"
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#2777168 - 02/10/12 05:12 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: FCspringer]
FCspringer Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Alexandria Lakes Area MN
Another interesting thing is the fact of where the people these stories originate from, live. Are just about all of them urban dwellers that live in town, or a city, the "Metro" ?. Could it be that a rural way of life is somewhat different then there expectations? Sure,Are some overly "Nuts" about it?, Sure. This topic is no different in the debate over you and I loosing the right to own an automatic weapon. People are shot robbed and so on each year. Yet the sportsman fights for his rights. I think the laws in this state have a thick enough dam book allready. People just need to find better things to do with their time, then to legislate stupidity. And stop trying to take any more rights, of any more sportsman, period.

When you think you are smarter then your dog ask yourself "who cleans up who's doodoo"
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#2777241 - 02/10/12 07:00 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: FCspringer]
Ray1 Offline
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Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 620
Loc: moorhead, Mn.
Well said FCspringer. You hit it right on the head with your statements.

2008 King of the cats champion
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#2777401 - 02/10/12 08:47 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: motley man]
Trapper J Offline
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Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 46
Loc: Ironton MN
This bill introduced by sen.WIGER and rep.WARD is just the beginning to end trapping.The conibear trap would be rendered pretty much useless and than trapping interest would be less than it already is.Jump ahead to no trapping in this state.We would be like the state of Wash.where predators are out of control and killing a lot more dogs than conibears do.Than we would have to hire a licensed trapper to protect our pets from being on the coyotes menu,just like Wash.residents.How about Mass.?Trapping is illegal there also.Beaver and muskrat damage to private property is out of control and landowners there cant do anything about it because of all the gov't redtape and hoops they have to jump through to get a permit.Thats where were heading if this goes through.
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#2777476 - 02/10/12 09:29 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trapper J]
Ray1 Offline
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Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 620
Loc: moorhead, Mn.
And think of all the tax dollars we will have to pay to farmers,ranchers and pet owners because of wolves and coyotes killing all these animals. I for one think that we are in enough debt and dont need any more. Why should we have to pay for our government to hire a trapper to come in and clear out the beavers that are blocking culverts, coyotes killing dogs,cats, and livestock, racoons and mink killing chickens, ducks, pheasants, partridge and everything else. Come on you antis think about this. Lets be realistic. We need trapping to handle the population of the varmints.

2008 King of the cats champion
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#2777631 - 02/10/12 11:31 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: FCspringer]
Saw557 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 136
This will fire them up again but I've been wanting to say it for some time. A large part of the problem is people in the metro area that have money and cabins "up north" and come up hear and think it is their own little playground. The problem is I live and work here and its not a playground its my back yard. I also have two pointing dogs I hunt with and while I am aware of the risk I dont worry about it.This whole issue is blown so far out of proportion its based on a lot of fear and misunderstanding how many people actually encounter a trap in the woods there is a lot of "my neighbor" or "a guy I heard about" the Metro media has repalyed the same stories over and over again. Maybe the solution for these people is to limit trapping south of 694 where they spend the majority of their time....flame on


Originally Posted By: FCspringer
Another interesting thing is the fact of where the people
these stories originate from, live. Are just about all of them urban dwellers that live in town, or a city, the "Metro" ?. Could it be that a rural way of life is somewhat different then there expectations? Sure,Are some overly "Nuts" about it?, Sure. This topic is no different in the debate over you and I loosing the right to own an automatic weapon. People are shot robbed and so on each year. Yet the sportsman fights for his rights. I think the laws in this state have a thick enough dam book allready. People just need to find better things to do with their time, then to legislate stupidity. And stop trying to take any more rights, of any more sportsman, period.


Edited by Saw557 (02/10/12 11:37 AM)
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#2777740 - 02/10/12 01:13 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Saw557]
K_Josh87 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 745
Loc: Le Center, MN
I myself do not trap, I do hunt ducks and some pheasants, sometimes behind a dog, and sometimes not... If we know there are traps around, we keep the dogs out... IMO there are bigger fish to fry than to [PoorWordUsage] away our lawmakers time with this stuff... Trapping is very much part of the outdoors, I have never lived in the city, and have always been in the middle of south central MN, and have lived next to some very prime trapping grounds... never have once lost a pooch to a trap, and probably never will.... It comes down to having some common sense and self responsibility, on both dog owners and trappers parts.... We've typically known when someone is trapping in the area... and we keep the dogs out of there... If I lost a dog to a trap, IMO The dog shouldn't have had his head stuck in there in the first place... They have the right to share the land just as I do.


Interesting side note... I believe it was last night on the news I seen a run on "over populated" yotes in the cities harassing and killing dogs and cats....


Maybe we should ban yotes in the metro area... see how that one pans out! confused whistle


Seriously, i think banning the 220 is like wiping before you [PoorWordUsage], it just don't make sense...

Good Luck guys, and I hope you are able to keep on doing what you guys do best, I have had some opportunities to shadow some trapping, and possibly after enough of that, sometime in the future I may give it a try! Its a very interesting realm of critter gettin that takes a lot of "smarts" to do...

Also, in my experience, EVERY trapper I have ever known goes through great lengths to locate that spot that no one else should be in, and does EVERYTHING possible to avoid humans and mutts... A ton of work is ruined very quickly by bird/deer/duck/shed hunter walking by leaving a scent trail... my 2c
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#2777755 - 02/10/12 01:30 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Ray1]
jparrucci Online   content
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Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
Calling us antis is not going to help your cause. I never understood why the government pays for wolf trappers, when there are plenty of people willing to pay them to trap. We are trying to cone up with a working solution to a problem that works for both sides. Continuing as is isn't acceptable to too many. You can either choose to be part of the solution, or lose even more trapping options. None of us here have posted that we want to see trapping changed over water or on private lands. This is strictly related to dry set conibears on public land during bird hunting.

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2777761 - 02/10/12 01:32 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: K_Josh87]
Ray1 Offline
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Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 620
Loc: moorhead, Mn.
Another good post Josh.

2008 King of the cats champion
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#2777769 - 02/10/12 01:36 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
jparrucci Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
Josh, for those who know where traps are it is easy to avoid. Just because the trappers you know use some common sense, doesn't mean that all do. I have personally seen traps in horrible places on public land I'm the peak of both pheasant and grouse seasons.

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2777869 - 02/10/12 02:59 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
Trapper J Offline
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Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 46
Loc: Ironton MN
jp ,you seem to have a negative "what if" scenario towards a post thats positive towards trapping.If I had that towards all the bone-headed moves Ive seen out fishing and hunting ,I'd never go anywhere or do anything again.Theres risks in everything we do in life.Worrying about a trap around every corner should be the least of your problems.
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#2777871 - 02/10/12 03:00 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
Trashguy Offline
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Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 73
Loc: Longville, MN USA
You know one thing that really comes out when emotions run high, is the truth how some people really feel/think. And what I have observed is the contempt from some of the people that trap and live up north of the so called "612" area code. The latest example is Saw557's post. In an earlier post of his he said "I paged through the petiton and noticed the vast majority of people that signed it are from the metro area" If that is true how and the heck are you helping your cause with your last post? I mean I would like to know the ratio of members on this site that are north or south of that "area code 612" line. There have been many things said on this thread and the other, but forget about the the dog/trap issue, its the attitude of some of the people that live north of me that really &*^%$ off. What gives you the right to belittle we that don't just happen to live down the street from you. And I really wish I could send some of those *&^$% comments to all your local business that depend on we "612" people coming up to make it. Wonder what they would think about their trapper neighbors then.
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#2777909 - 02/10/12 03:35 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trashguy]
sheepheadslayer Offline
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Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 576
Loc: waterville mn
Your post Trashguy is the battle we are fighting right now. Getting thrown in a group because what you do or where your from. Do I try and set a 220 as careful as possible? Sure do. Do all trappers? I would say 99% yes. Do all so called "612er's" that go "up north" have a clue about the outdoors?I would say the same most do. Bad apple spoils the whole bunch theory. Again it comes to education!!!! You want solutions to this then we need education. Every parking lot has a handout with cautions on the ground they are entering. Add a section to the Hunter Safety course that has trap awareness and how to set and release different traps. (good for any kid to know). I have been around trapping my whole life. Some kids wouldnt have a clue what to do and if never taught may never if thy come across a situation. Get to them early. If you buy a trapping liscense you take a class every 5 years sponsererd by the MTA with trapping etiquet etc. These are just ideas. Just know that over reaction from uneducated people is the reason we fight such stupid regulations.
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#2777928 - 02/10/12 03:57 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: sheepheadslayer]
mnbullrider Offline
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Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
Do "612" people depend on the businesses "up north" to make it up here? Odd twist to this whole post imo this part of the conversation is irrelivant. Mabey the idea of you need US needs to go and we can get on task.

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2777967 - 02/10/12 04:38 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mnbullrider]
K_Josh87 Offline
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Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 745
Loc: Le Center, MN
Welp, There is give and there is take... I once again don't really side either way because my life does not revolve around hunting upland birds, or trapping...

Maybe a trapping class is a decent Idea... or more involved one than is required now (I know there is a class required in order to get a trapping lic, but I have not taken it so do not know how detailed it is) Maybe every 5 years isn't a bad idea either, I do not know... ITS AN IDEA

Maybe classes for bird hunters, and / or there dogs are a good idea too... If you can train a dog to not take a dump on the floor, to kennel up, to find and retrieve birds, and to not cross property lines, or leave the rug in the front entry, I am sure with a little work one could teach them not to stick there nose in a trap!

AS far as the difference in the "metro" people and non metro people, I'm not offended in the fact that, if you stuck me in down town urbansville... I wouldn't have a lick of sense there either... I'll first point the finger at myself. I do not fit in in that crowd naturally. Doesn't mean I don't know where to go and not to go, and what to do and not to do... just means its not natural to me, and the "unspoken" knowledge and street smarts I may not have.

Thus being said, Its the same when people go from the metro to rural areas, You are passionate and glad to be in the out doors, and enjoy the living heck out of it, mostly for the same reasons we that do not live in the metro do.... For example, Down here is cornfield counties, where hog and cattle farms are numerous... If my dog leaves the property, I am going to do everything in my power to teach it not to... its not an acceptable, or excusable behavior. And, If my dog is caught on another farm site, i am not going to put that person to the grills for doing what they have to do to protect there property... they do not know if my dog has been on another farm chewing on another animals carcass... or if it simply came from another farm, needless to say, there is a chance it could be carrying a disease... and that dog is worth a heck of a lot less than a barn full of hogs, or a lot full of cattle...

That being said, its a "culture" clash, same with the trapping/bird hunting issue... Its a culture clash, and My best guess is, there are most commonly issues with lack or knowledge and or experience... If you are having issues with running into traps on public ground this tells me a few things...

Good chance if you and your dogs are finding traps... the trapper is uneducated or un experienced... It is very easy for all of us to get excited about a new hobby, and get out there and giver the beans!... But, as with most of us with new hobbies, we do not always get it right on the first time... Is there a way to help these "first time jitters"??? Maybe a longer apprentice time in order to get your trapping rights? My personal experience with trapping is it is a lot like a trade, such as carpentry, which is best learned or passed on from one to the next...

This all being said, Fair is Fair in my mind... look for some ways to expand education on the trapping side of things. And Also make some sort of education required to go afield with a dog. If a trapper has to do something, so does the bird dog owner... Maybe an obedience certificate of some sort for the pooch to be allowed afield??? I don't see any reason not to have to be able to prove your dog is capable of following orders such as come and heel, and having some education on traps... There is nothing more obnoxious for me then to sit in a duck boat and listen to someone yell at a stupid dog the whole morning, so I wouldn't mind it for duck hunting as well...

Just another 2c
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#2777981 - 02/10/12 05:03 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: K_Josh87]
Trashguy Offline
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Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 73
Loc: Longville, MN USA
sheepheadslayer, I appreciate your post. Thanks. mnbullrider, not so much. "odd twist" What, we should just blow off my comments made as irrelevant. The "612" just adds fuel too the fire/flame, don't you think? Like I said those type of comments (612) tick me off and incite me to spread how I feel even more. So how can you say my comments are "irrelevant" and not on topic, when all they can do is hurt your cause. Maybe because you don't have a better come back other than "irrelevant".


Edited by Trashguy (02/10/12 05:50 PM)
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#2778048 - 02/10/12 06:15 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trashguy]
Saw557 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 136
I knew the "612" comment would light someone up but there is some truth to it they want to come up here and have everything safe,secure and wrapped up with bow on it what happened to "when in Rome do as the Romans do". Society as a whole wants/needs the govt to take care of them and protect them from bad things that MIGHT happen. We don't need new laws people need to step up and be responsible for themselves.
Between hunting,trapping,training and exercising my dogs I am in the field over 200 days a year and have never had a problem with a trap and if it were to happen I am educated enough to deal with it, its part of the game. What also seems funny is I've mentioned in at least two prior posts compromises that I think could work for both the hunters and trappers and not one hunter/dog person has been willing to discuss it. They seem to think it should be their way or the highway and all that does is p@%% a guy off more. I think most trappers would be open to a compromise regarding land sets but completely submerging water sets is unreasonable and unworkable. Its time to quit the [PoorWordUsage] and bickering and find a solution that everyone can live with.
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#2778063 - 02/10/12 06:33 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Saw557]
swampman Offline
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Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
The mta is on this and I trust will come up with a compromise if that is what needs to happen. All that is happenning on here is shouting at each other and it makes us all look bad.

Whatever happens somebody is'nt going to like the outcome. There are some on here that want these traps gone and nothing is going to change there mind and it is a waste of time to think otherwise.

I myself think this whole issue is a media witch hunt that has been blown out of proportion.
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#2778069 - 02/10/12 06:42 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
Saw557 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 136
+1 Its hard for me to set by and not say something. I am as passionate about bird hunting as I am about trapping and the ignorance on both sides of the story is hard to watch. I also really believe the media is to blame for a lot of whats going on.

I am done here.............

Originally Posted By: swampman
The mta is on this and I trust will come up with a compromise if that is what needs to happen. All that is happenning on here is shouting at each other and it makes us all look bad.

Whatever happens somebody is'nt going to like the outcome. There are some on here that want these traps gone and nothing is going to change there mind and it is a waste of time to think otherwise.

I myself think this whole issue is a media witch hunt that has been blown out of proportion.
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#2778109 - 02/10/12 07:50 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Saw557]
Trashguy Offline
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Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 73
Loc: Longville, MN USA
Saw557 wrote: "Its hard for me to set by and not say something" Well at least we agree on that.
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#2778146 - 02/10/12 08:57 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
9339za Offline
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Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern MN
Originally Posted By: swampman
The mta is on this and I trust will come up with a compromise if that is what needs to happen. All that is happenning on here is shouting at each other and it makes us all look bad.

Whatever happens somebody is'nt going to like the outcome. There are some on here that want these traps gone and nothing is going to change there mind and it is a waste of time to think otherwise.

I myself think this whole issue is a media witch hunt that has been blown out of proportion.


The MTA is quoted as opposed to any changes to body grip trap regulations in todays Bemidji Pioneer. With 2 million dog owners in the state that position is going to hurt all trappers.

One thing that some people seem to forget is that other people who don't hunt and don't trap have right to "our woods". It's not their responsibility to avoid my traps. It's MY responsibity to avoid them.
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#2778150 - 02/10/12 09:03 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
Trashguy Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 73
Loc: Longville, MN USA
+1
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#2778218 - 02/11/12 05:42 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Originally Posted By: 9339za
The MTA is quoted as opposed to any changes to body grip trap regulations in todays Bemidji Pioneer.


The Bemidji Pioneer also says:

Quote:
Department of Natural Resources fish and wildlife director Ed Boggess says there may be other ways to protect dogs.

“Other states that have approached this issue have also included options that are on the ground, but they restrict the size of the opening, require the trap to be recessed back into a box where a dog can’t get its head back into the trap,” Boggess said. “We’re going to work with legislators and others to come up with a reasonable approach.”



Of course the next story down is

Quote:
A Hubbard County Sheriff’s deputy was severely bitten in the arm by a dog that was encouraged by its owner to attack, according to Hubbard County Sheriff Cory Aukes.



It's geared so you only see what you want, thats how they sell papers or get poeple to watch the commercails.

Today’s media is a dog and pony show to start with, just so happens this is the tearjerker of the week. After this is done it will be a park bench, wild flowers or somebody’s shrubs that will have the bored and often unemployed in another outrage. Folks need something to hate to feel complete.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2778228 - 02/11/12 06:12 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
As for the metro versus rural regions comments.

I would love to stay and debate this topic today but I have to go to DNR bear school because some thought bear guides need to go to school… and learn about bear (two hours of the class devoted to forms and new laws). Then I have to go get my CPR/First aid training, again. The state now requires us to have the full Adult/pediatric CPR/First Aid/ AED and not just CPR to be a bear guide. Then I have to go get my live fish and transport health certificate from the fisheries. This is a piece of paper I where I pay for the state to test the state waters for VHS. Granted they test it themselves within a month but I have to have it tested also and it is not cheap. From there I will be stopping at my insurance agent to adjust my policy again as new state laws have changed how I am licensed to operate on public lands, and that needs to be addressed as another liability. Then I go to my lawyer’s office to ensure the 142 pages of new regulations I have as a guide and bait dealer are all met and I am in compliance. Of course a few more dollars will be needed for the insurance agent and lawyer. These laws and hoops to jump through all came from concerned people with petitions or pushed by officials, representatives or senators from more populated regions. I would love to see the rural opinion have a stronger voice but truth be told I live in Bemidji county in the state of Minneapolis.

The new trapping regs are proof of that once again.

Us country folk may not always be something the bigger cities are proud of but man are we fun to watch when we are forced to dance

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2778238 - 02/11/12 06:51 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
swampman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
I started a reply to this but decided not to be sucked into this anymore other than to say 9339za I would'nt be suprised if you are actually john reynolds.


Edited by swampman (02/11/12 06:52 AM)
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#2778250 - 02/11/12 07:11 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
K_Josh87 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 745
Loc: Le Center, MN
JohnnP, unfortunately thats how its goes in this state... about the same amount of hoops i still have to jump through to pound a nail in this state... and yet i cannot charge anymore for my services and expect to land work... Its how our money hungry state operates....
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#2778253 - 02/11/12 07:14 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA


Quote:
Today’s media is a dog and pony show to start with, just so happens this is the tearjerker of the week. After this is done it will be a park bench, wild flowers or somebody’s shrubs that will have the bored and often unemployed in another outrage. Folks need something to hate to feel complete.



Don't know if it's that they need something to hate so much, but it's an easy sell to portray the trapper as the evil henchman out to destroy the family pet when the general public sentiment leans that way anyway. All you need to do to see that is to look what has happened in other states, especially the more heavily populated ones.

But it doesn't bode well for sportsmen as a group, anyway you look at it, because sportsmen are in the minority to begin with.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2778257 - 02/11/12 07:16 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trashguy]
mnbullrider Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
Originally Posted By: Trashguy
sheepheadslayer, I appreciate your post. Thanks. mnbullrider, not so much. "odd twist" What, we should just blow off my comments made as irrelevant. The "612" just adds fuel too the fire/flame, don't you think? Like I said those type of comments (612) tick me off and incite me to spread how I feel even more. So how can you say my comments are "irrelevant" and not on topic, when all they can do is hurt your cause. Maybe because you don't have a better come back other than "irrelevant".


You are adding fire to the flame I have been quiet in this post for some time and this brought me back into it with you're comment that without tourists we would not make it up here. You are the one who informed me that the cities was area code 612. You are the one who considers youre comments irrelivent in general, I think this arguement is not the issue this thread is made for. And unitll now you are the only one who has made a comeback comment. I think this argument has no point continuing. What cause have I been hurting again? But you Sir are backing up a long time philosophy.

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2778307 - 02/11/12 08:20 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mnbullrider]
9339za Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern MN
As long as some trappers refuse to acknowledge that killing dogs is a real problem and step up and offer real solutions we are at the mercy of people who don't know anything about our sport. Read the comments below the Bemidji editorial and you'll see what I mean by real solutions. Hunters and dog owners only want for their dogs to be safe from body grip traps. Instead of the gnashing of teeth and wailing about the end of trapping we should be working to solve the problem. Blaming hunters for not hunting with their dog on a leash or that 'education' is the solution just makes us look stupid.
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#2778361 - 02/11/12 09:55 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
mnbullrider Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
How does a guy look up the comments on the pioneer web page. I found the editorial but not any comments.

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2778571 - 02/11/12 04:58 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mnbullrider]
9339za Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern MN
You will probably have to go through the Strib site. I think that's where I saw them.
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#2780204 - 02/13/12 05:06 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
NORTHCRAZE Offline
Jr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 21
Loc: LONGVILLE MINN.
Is that a intelligent comeback?
If it is you know you are speaking for your fellow trappers!
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#2780207 - 02/13/12 05:09 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: NORTHCRAZE]
NORTHCRAZE Offline
Jr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 21
Loc: LONGVILLE MINN.
Sorry,
I meant to reply to:
I started a reply to this but decided not to be sucked into this anymore other than to say 9339za I would'nt be suprised if you are actually john reynolds.
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#2780236 - 02/13/12 05:35 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
NORTHCRAZE Offline
Jr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 21
Loc: LONGVILLE MINN.


"One thing that some people seem to forget is that other people who don't hunt and don't trap have right to "our woods". It's not their responsibility to avoid my traps. It's MY responsibity to avoid them. [/quote]"

Well said!!
Pretty much everything that is being said has to do with bird hunting.
I want to get more into "Shed Hunting" with my best friend who needs exercise and loves to run. But if I need to keep her on a "4 foot leash" I may as well stay at home and get fat and out of shape also as most of the reason I go is for her. I thought it was "public land"
Didn't know I had to take "Calculated Risks"!!
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#2780272 - 02/13/12 06:34 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: NORTHCRAZE]
swampman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
If you are responding to one of my posts I will simply say you take a calculated risk everytime you get in your car, go ice fishing,lace up a pair of skates to play hockey,go canoeing or for alot of people there jobs.The list could go on.
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#2780611 - 02/14/12 07:15 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN

In 2011 the National weather service reports 26 people died from lightning strikes along with a few hundred a year are injured from lightning. The average is 55 deaths per year! Now this has to stop. I think everybody out on public lands need to either wear all insulating clothing; including thick rubber shoes or install a grounding rod or lighting rod to their hat. This of course will only be until we can get lightning to stay 8 feet of the ground.

I just don't know if I dare go outside anymore. Lightning, deadly traps and don't even get me started on the amount of danger and deaths from killer bees. Actually looks like about 50+ people die from all bees and wasps and 1-2 have been documented as Africanized bees! That’s it I'm never going outside again until the state can assure my safety! Bees, lightning and dog attacks are all well over 20 a year. It could happen to me.

Average Number of Human Deaths per Year…well look who is a killer!

Bee/Wasp 53
Dogs 31
Horse 20
Spider 6.5
Rattlesnake 5.5
Bull 3
Mountain lion 1
Shark 1

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2780656 - 02/14/12 08:03 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
bemidjibasser Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 647
Loc: bemidji,mn
I hate bees.
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#2780669 - 02/14/12 08:18 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: bemidjibasser]
swampman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
Originally Posted By: bemidjibasser
I hate bees.

Lol me to
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#2780800 - 02/14/12 09:48 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
wh1stler Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 124
Loc: Fridley, MN
Originally Posted By: Jonny P

In 2011 the National weather service reports 26 people died from lightning strikes along with a few hundred a year are injured from lightning. The average is 55 deaths per year! Now this has to stop. I think everybody out on public lands need to either wear all insulating clothing; including thick rubber shoes or install a grounding rod or lighting rod to their hat. This of course will only be until we can get lightning to stay 8 feet of the ground.


I have got to believe you can see the flaw in this line of reasoning. Unlike the placement of traps lightning and killer bees are pretty much out of the control of humans. Flawed logic and idiotic comparisons don't arouse sympathy or allies.

People elsewhere have talked about how cars kill more dogs than traps many times over. This is true, of course, and so the reasoning goes cars should be banned. You need to look at the cost benefit ratio here. As a society we are willing to put up with the problems posed by cars because of this tremendous value. Cars have way more utilitarian value than do traps or the profession/hobby of trappers. Again, flawed logic and idiotic comparisons only serve to alienate potential allies and neutral parties.
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#2780868 - 02/14/12 10:56 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: wh1stler]
swamptiger Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 8276
Loc: Up north, MN USA


Quote:
Cars have way more utilitarian value than do traps or the profession/hobby of trappers.


Unless the road to your cabin has been flooded by beaver... grin

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#2780873 - 02/14/12 11:00 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
bemidjibasser Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 647
Loc: bemidji,mn
I may be wrong, but I think Johnny P was using a little bit of sarcasm. Not much, just a little...
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#2780874 - 02/14/12 11:01 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: wh1stler]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Originally Posted By: wh1stler


I have got to believe you can see the flaw in this line of reasoning. Unlike the placement of traps lightning and killer bees are pretty much out of the control of humans. Flawed logic and idiotic comparisons don't arouse sympathy or allies.




How bout you dismount your white horse and enjoy some good humor like the rest of us. Wow, wound up tighter than a 2cent top.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2780875 - 02/14/12 11:02 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Originally Posted By: swamptiger



Unless the road to your cabin has been flooded by beaver... grin


Or the racoons got in and trashed the cabin. Now we wasted the valuable gas in the valuable car on the way to the devalued cabin but at least we squashed the valueless trapper.

It’s a vicious circle of devaluation!

I'm sorry but this whole deal has grown so far out of proportion it has become ridiculous. So I feel ridiculous answers work the best. Realistic logic has been thrown out the window and the crying of wolf is becoming very apparent. In fact I got a voicemail about a roadway/culvert crossing flooding from a feed bed under the ice and they want a trapper to come in and get the beaver out before they attempt to fix it again. I may tell them I am of no value and they will have to figure out how to "legislate" the beaver out. laugh

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2781184 - 02/14/12 03:42 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swamptiger]
wh1stler Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 124
Loc: Fridley, MN
Originally Posted By: swamptiger
Unless the road to your cabin has been flooded by beaver... grin

This is funny. I'm sitting here with half smirk on my face. I like this humor.


BTW...I don't have a white horse. I have a white pickup, is that close enough?
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#2781242 - 02/14/12 04:52 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: wh1stler]
Ray1 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 620
Loc: moorhead, Mn.
You guys forgot about lyme disease and westnile. Jeesh. grin Not only that but then a kid could be out playing and get bit by a rabid skunk or coon too. The people that want 220s off the ground need to be edjucated.

2008 King of the cats champion
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#2781261 - 02/14/12 05:07 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Ray1]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Great Ray! Now I have to wear a rubberized (for lightning) full body bug suit to stop the west nile AND killer bees. I just know I'm going to get hurt outside; I'm changing it to "Indoors with Jonny P". laugh

On a somewhat serious note did anybody catch the "Raccoon Nation" TV show. It was pretty interesting how raccoons have been slowly creeping into urban areas and basically evolving/adapting into a fully functional urban creature just like pigeons or squirrels. They made the comment about how raccoons they collared and tracked have territory divided by major roads. Basically each city block has its own family group. They figure the cars are the only threat these raccoons have making them divide and conquer one block at a time. In China they have gotten so bad the Chief Biologist or gal in charge said it is her job to make sure they exterminate as many as they can as fast as they can.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2781291 - 02/14/12 05:35 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: motley man]
Saw557 Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 136
I swore to myself I was going set this out because there is no common sense or logic behind alot of the excuse people are trying to use to ban trapping. But now the "shed hunters" are coming to the plate. Last I knew the vast majority of deer up north dont loose their antlers until after trapping season is closed....maybe things are different south of 694 ??? Whats next 4th of july party goers are worried their dog will be caught in a water set. Give me a frickin break. I have yet to see a "dog hunter" other than myself in two different posts (look it up) offer up any kind of compromise all they want to do is ban. How many of these anti's have made a water set and realize the impact of having to completely submerge the trap. Instead sitting around pointing fingers and bit*hing about it why not find a workable compromise. I am done.......maybe
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#2781309 - 02/14/12 06:04 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
Ray1 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 620
Loc: moorhead, Mn.
Originally Posted By: Jonny P
"Indoors with Jonny P". laugh


Now that is funny. Indoors with Jonny P braught to you by Jonny. Please support our sponsers: sharmin toilet paper, Bic pens, and auquanet hair spray.Jonny says "And for those of you that would like to talk trapping, hunting, or fishing please just trust what i say to you over the internet on a forum. I have not been outdoors but i could only imagine that the fish are bitting over by the heave." LOL.

2008 King of the cats champion
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#2781313 - 02/14/12 06:11 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Saw557]
9339za Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern MN
Who said anything about banning body grip traps?

How do trappers in other states catch bobcats without body grip traps? Or this state?

All I'm reading is a bunch of paranoia.

Are trappers in other states really that much better than Minnesota trappers?

If anyone thinks this issue is going to get better or go away they've been out of touch in the bush for too long.

Adapt or die is the choice we have and I really hope you don't drag me down with you.
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#2781355 - 02/14/12 06:47 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
mnbullrider Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
Originally Posted By: 9339za
Who said anything about banning body grip traps?

How do trappers in other states catch bobcats without body grip traps? Or this state?

All I'm reading is a bunch of paranoia.

Are trappers in other states really that much better than Minnesota trappers?

If anyone thinks this issue is going to get better or go away they've been out of touch in the bush for too long.

Adapt or die is the choice we have and I really hope you don't drag me down with you.


How would you go about catching a bobcat in northern MN?

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2781394 - 02/14/12 07:35 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mnbullrider]
Trashguy Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 73
Loc: Longville, MN USA
9339za +1

Ray1 wrote: "The people that want 220s off the ground need to be edjucated" and maybe the people that set them too. Its spelled "educated" Long as we are in the humorous post mode....
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#2781439 - 02/14/12 08:18 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Trashguy]
Saw557 Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 136
Once again more bullsh*t and no talk of a solution. So hows this for a compromise some people have mentioned a 4' leash for hunting dogs now being a bird hunter myself with two NAVHDA registered pointing dogs I find this way to restrictive so I propose a 20' leash for upland hunting and a 10' leash for waterfowl. Speaking of waterfowl hunting maybe upland season should be shortened to 60 days like waterfowl instead of the 100 plus days it is now to harvest your 10 bird limit. Compare that to the 9 days I have to catch 5 martin/fisher or the approx 40 days to catch 5 bobcat. One thing is true this issue isn't going away and neither is the fact life is full of risks get a grip or stay in your insulated, sanatized,climate controlled, cubicle
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#2781443 - 02/14/12 08:24 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mnbullrider]
9339za Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern MN
Originally Posted By: mnbullrider

How would you go about catching a bobcat in northern MN?


In footholds like I always do. This year is no problem but if there is a lot of snow I just put the sets under a thick balsam with a couple extra boughs added above. Beyond that they aren't any harder to catch than a coon. You just have to position your lures so the cat can't put it's nose right on them and use guide sticks.
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#2781460 - 02/14/12 08:39 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
mnbullrider Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
If you're getting your 5 cats a year in foot holds in northern MN I will take any advice you can give. Do you trap full time or part time before and after work?

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2781477 - 02/14/12 08:53 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mnbullrider]
mnbullrider Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
The reason I say this is I know first hand that if you're running all foot holds and taking a limit which I don't know if you are or not just an assumption, you are running less traps than you would be running lines with coni's and a 3 day tending period. Cat season has very limited day light I've run both types of sets on cat lines and I know what has worked for me and I've never been able to make enuff foot hold sets that I can possibly check in one day with work constraints. How else are you keeping sets from freezing in even under balsam. I've made many sets under balsam, spruce, cedar, under cubbies that i've had foot holds in with waxed dirt in the trap bed I still have them freeze come December. What lures are you using?

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2781479 - 02/14/12 08:55 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: 9339za]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Originally Posted By: 9339za

Adapt or die


I got it! Breed dogs with bigger heads! Bobble Head Beagles!



While we wait for breeding



And what does the expanding raccoon population think of using dogs as the excuse to be trap free?




Oh I'm so gonna get hate mail for this one. laugh

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2781482 - 02/14/12 08:56 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
mnbullrider Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
I vote for the center picture!!!!

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2781485 - 02/14/12 08:59 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: mnbullrider]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
Not saying ban the dogs just change how they are used.

Now dogs won't get in traps, fences, dig out badger dens, cut up their tounges and ears on grass and other trouble dogs get into. I bet we could get camo and orange cones to keep the dogs looking as good as the Bennelli! smile

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2781487 - 02/14/12 09:00 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
mnbullrider Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 259
Loc: Northern, MN
Yes sir the center picture is an perfect comprosmise dog kept from harm and allowed to roam the wild north.

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for awhile, I was a suspect."
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#2781810 - 02/15/12 09:10 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
Tinkhamtown Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 434
Loc: Minnesota
Today’s joke is tomorrow’s serous matter. Six dead dogs because of conibear traps is a laughing matter to you, but I am sure it is not funny to the owners. Not hunting or going on the public lands because you fear for your dog’s safety because of traps is serious.
Public land, State and National forests do not belong to just trappers so they can kill to make a living.
An online petition (see http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mark-dayton-governor-minnesota/) to outlaw body-gripping traps on public land.

Watch your top knot
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#2781844 - 02/15/12 09:43 AM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Tinkhamtown]
Jonny P Offline
HSO Legacy Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 7490
Loc: Waskish, MN
So suggesting outlandish one sided ideas about how to change standard methods of use directed at a selected group is not funny, and actually found offensive? Huh, imagine that.


I don't want to ban dogs but just change how they are used.

Outdoors with JonnyP
Fish House Rental & Guide
On Upper Red Lake.
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#2782217 - 02/15/12 03:53 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Jonny P]
NORTHCRAZE Offline
Jr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 21
Loc: LONGVILLE MINN.
Johnny P

So if you are serious about saying

"I don't want to ban dogs but just change how they are used."

Can't I say

"I don't want to ban traps but just change the way they are used.?

I'LL wait for your reply
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#2782260 - 02/15/12 04:37 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: Tinkhamtown]
swampman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 512
Loc: buffalo mn
Real usefull petition there, got people from asia, europe south africa and japan voting on policy in mn.


Edited by swampman (02/15/12 04:38 PM)
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#2782277 - 02/15/12 04:59 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: swampman]
jparrucci Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: Lakeville, Lake Vermilion
Kstp website has an updated number, according to them at least twenty dogs have been killed in the last year.

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy
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#2782284 - 02/15/12 05:12 PM
Re: Thoughts On 220's [Re: jparrucci]
NORTHCRAZE Offline
Jr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 21
Loc: LONGVILLE MINN.
Originally Posted By: jparrucci
Kstp website has an updated number, according to them at least twenty dogs have been killed in the last year.


I've heard 25 + and how many you think are never reported or just thrown in ditches?
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