Hotspotoutdoors

Pardon me, but that's what people do. They move to where there are jobs. It's the same reason the Range came about, people moved there because there were jobs. You hedge all your bets on a non-renewable limited resource, what do you think is going to happen? And what makes the Range people all that dang special? There is plenty of hardship to go around these days, it's not limited to just mesabi soil.

I agree with you, people do move to where the jobs are at. Just think of the hundreds of jobs that could be created by sulfide mining. Plus the hundreds of spin off jobs. Now think of the hundreds of people with those jobs, either local or moving to the area. Because like you said people move to were the jobs are at.

I don't know if the Range people are all that dang special but they do play a pivotal role in this discussion. I would talk about people from Mankato but they are not closely associated with the mining going on in the Iron Range. Unless, Mankato receives some benefits from the state through royalties paid by the mining companies. Or maybe if someone from Mankato moved up to the Range for one of those jobs.

Mankato, that's a dirty river town. (a dirty river town that provided me with an education)

If ya go rippin on folks from the cities, you are rippin on folks from the Iron Range. There's a carpload a range transplants down here, or are those people not included in your rippage? And don't think your "No offense to others living in the twin cities area" gets you off the hook, because I took offense.

Typical "Local Yokel" talk.







See? How does that feel?

Today's paper reports Hibbing unemployment at 18% right now. Highest in the state. What is the amount of unemployment in your area?

We all make choices where to work and live. And we all have to live with the consequences of those choices. Life often is not easy or fair.

lakevet

All I know is that Northern MN could use the job base, and the ores are there. Now add in companies that want to mine there and it sure seems like a no brainer to me.

Just like oil in Texas and Tobacco in Virginia.

I don't know, maybe 10%? But 10% of 2.5 million is a lot more people than 18% of tens of thousands. Mining has always been a boom or bust industry, that's why they call 'em ghost towns out west.


I agree that the folks up there could sure use these jobs. All I'm trying to say is don't try and play this project off as being enviormentaly friendly. There's no such thing in the mining world.

I don't trust business to make the right decision, I don't trust government to make the right decision, and I sure as heck don't trust my fellow man to make the correct decision.

Have you ever looked into what some of our "American" companies have done while exploting new land? Dig into what some of our oil companies have done to innocent people that didn't want them their in the first place. They now have no clean water to bath in let alone drink. Some are becoming deathly ill and these companies refuse to clean up their mess! This may not be the greatest example but companies are their to make money and spend as little as possible to clean up after themselves or provide a safe place to store their waste. But it sounds like this mining project could have some problems of its own if it produces this gas that could leak into our water supply. Do a little research and you might find the few jobs this may create, could instead create a disasterous situation... Its always been about profit and NEVER about the environment. Why should the envornment take a back seat again? I think its taken that seat in the back for long enough!

All I'm saying is be careful what you wish for...

Well said Duff!

Lets legalize hemp if you are talking harmful toxins that can help the economy. Diversify at least hemp can be grown up there not like tobacy or drilling for oil. Oh that's right that would take to much land and ruin the ecology up there.

You make a valid point but the same can be said for extracting oil from shale but do we really want to destroy a mountain in the west and and use valuable water resources to do so or make ethanol with water in south eastern Minnesota where water is a precious commodity. Two examples of different landscapes that contribute to an outcome of an areas ecology. All these areas need help with jobs but theses solutions are minimal to the area and dont help the greater good but some will line their pockets with gold or Yen, chances are some of that will be sold out of country, while raping the land and the towns who work for them.

I live up here I see what mining does. But the question is what are we willing to give up to not mine? What comes out of the earth is very integral to our lifestyles. Take a look around you and look at what has some sort of metal content to it, it all came from mining. The Fridge, the washer, the car the dryer, the metal components to the computer that we are carrying this discussion on from, the list goes on and on. There is a part of society that just don't see that side of this or won't see that side. We need to mine or we need to start giving those things up.

I am still gonna say that mining today is going to be less problematic than it was a half century ago. And I am always amazed at those that begrudge the people who take the risks with their own money from making money on ventures like this. Isn't that why we all go to work, to make money, I am pretty sure their are very few of us here that donate our time for the company for free.

I'm all for it. Heck, take it one step further and legalize the whole crop

Things can be built and jobs can be done without totally ruining the surrounding landscape. I remember the Alaska oil pipeline fisaco. In the end, the environment didn't suffer that badly.

Should any project be allowed just willy nilly? Nope. Do I trust major corporations to give a rip aboot the water quality? Nope. However, the extremes on both sides need to flex a bit and come to some type of happy agreement. Otherwise we're slowly and surely going to lose everthing to overseas competition.

If things arn't going to happen in my back yard where will they happen???

Duffman- if you would have followed my previous discussion with Chode then you would have know that I was talking about hybrid tree hugers in the cities that want to abolish mining. But yet these people are not directly affected and sitting in their homes 300 miles away. So, if you are one of those people then yes you should have taken offense.

And why did those range people leave the area?....no jobs?

Minnesota has a golden oppurtunity to start something new and big. We are talking about >billion tone resource that is considered the 2nd largest nickel deposit in the world. This could create jobs for more then a hundred years. So we can't just abolish it. But we can let them do it and hopefully it will be be evironmentally safe.

I guess what it comes done to is not if it will hapen but when?

"But we can let them do it and hopefully it will be enviromentally safe."
That sentence doesn't exactly inspire confidence among those that are reluctant to trust the mining companies to keep the impact to a minimum.
Just read today that statewide, unemployment is at 7.2%. Not great but still fairly well below the national average of 10.2%.
It'd be interesting to see how it breaks down regionally in the state and to see how it has been for the same regions over the past 20-30 years.

You wouldn't have any particular interest in PolyMet, would you Platinum Group Element Hound ?

This is definitely an interesting topic with a lot of good discussion on either side.

"But we can let them do it and hopefully it will be environmentally. safe."



That's the type stuff I have an issue with. I would have no problem with this going through as long as I know the minimg companies would do all they can to be safe.

I am not a tree hugger but I have seen in the past how at times the mining companies have done some things that turned out to be a disaster.

If only one could trust the mining companies to do the right thing and not turn their heads at times and try to cover up unsafe practices.

As others have stated, if both sides could sit done and each give a little, this could work.

Curious
All the mining that has been done up there
has it ruined and water ways or sources in the past
other than the dumping into superior
or what other problems did it cause up there in the past

I grew up about 5 miles west of Mt. Iron in a small...really small...town of Kinney. At the age of 10 and 11 I also lived in Mt. Iron. You want to see some of the other destruction? Do an internet map search for Kinney and Mt. Iron and take a look at the satellite image of the USX west pit. When I was growing up we played little league baseball north of where old hwy 169 turns west going out of town on the north end of Mt. Iron. That pit was not there. Today, all that's left of the northern half of Mt. Iron are a few old foundations where the pit hasn't consumed them. When I was growing up in Kinney we used to be able to drive our car straight north out of town all the way up to where the Sherwood-Anderson road makes that sharp turn to the north about 5 miles north. Today, you can see the pit consumes the area from East of Mt. Iron all the way to county hwy. 25 west of Kinney. That's a hole approximately 7 miles long and 5 miles wide. The Hull-Rust Mahoning mine in Hibbing was always considered the largest open pit mine. Zoom out and you'll see that the hole USX has in the ground now dwarfs the Hull-Rust today.

I fully understand that we need to extract the ore from the ground. Copper, silver, gold, iron, etc. are all metals we use....a lot. Without them we'd still be living in sod homes and using our God-given feet to get around. For this reason I think we have little choice but to accept the fact that the way we live and the lifestyle we have grown accustomed to....no...dependent upon, requires that we also accept a little risk and a little destruction. It's just a fact of life.

Imagine if we didn't extract the ore from the ground. We would not be able to build the multi-level homes and factories and sky-scrapers we have today. We think a metropolis like the twin cities area consumes large tracts of land today, imagine how spread out it would be if we couldn't build upward! It would consume twice the land area as would every other city in our country. With that in mind, even the holes left by mining operations are pin pricks compared to the land area we would consume if we didn't use the ore.

I also understand and support what Harvey Lee is saying. We can't just let these companies go unleashed either. There has to be some give and take and the environment must have a say too.

Or do you mean the Republic of Kinney?

You weren't part of the group that wanted so secede from the Union were you?

I graduated from Buhl in 1977. That following autumn I left for Bemidji to attend BSU. By the spring of 1978 I came home and found myself stopped at the city limits, or should I say Customs Office. I carried that passport in my wallet until about three years ago when I couldn't read it anymore. Hey, it worked.

If you'll indulge me, I'll share a little first-hand perspective regarding the events around the secession of Kinney.

Kinney was in desperate need of an upgrade to the water facility but there just wasn't enough money in the budget to get it done. So, the city decided to try seeking help from various agencies with no success.

Fet up with the frustration the City of Kinney made the decision that it would be easier to obtain support if the City of Kinney succeeded from the country and became a sovereign nation. How often does it seem that we are more reluctant to help one of our own than to help foreigners? Here's a copy of the letter written to the then Sec. of State, Cyrus Vance.



It worked. One of the agencies that was originally propositioned for support, the IRRRB, finally gave in and provided a grant to repair the system. I'm sure a major part of that decision was based on public relations. I can remember those that were in charge of that agency and in most cases you had little chance of success with them unless you belonged to their boys club. But at least they finally helped out.

I guess NOT seeing how lakeshore is running more than $1,000 a foot. And land is going for about $2000 an acre.
I'm also wondering since were all playing with unemployment numbers, how many FM'ers are business owners and if so, why haven't you moved your business up there?? Bottom line it's about jobs, and who has the jobs? The rich big corporations. If we don't like it fine, but be prepared to subsidize these regions in perpetuity by means of health insurance, unemployment insurance, housing assistance, dreaded LGA etc... Because nobody is going to lead a prosperous life or REGION on a retail/service wage.

well if all it did is leave hole thats not the worst
not very pretty granted but today i'm sure part of the plane will be or has to be reclaim the land as they go or something along those lines
though exspensive something can probably be done with the holes
and as some one compared to the steel that come out its not the bad...i guess when i asked the question and i was thinkin
like air you couldnt brreath water you couldnt drink..etc etc
Are those pits now full of water
I know the one's down here in that crosby are and fish in them
and parks and trails around them
so i guess the people in that area made the best of maybe not such a good situation
theres just so much more that can be done today than back then

Exactly, do you think I am originally from St. Paul, or even anyone that I work with? We all yearn to live in our original small towns again. But guess what, we can't because there aren't any jobs. Rather than complain about it we went out and made a living the best we can. But feel free to attack the messenger. Whatever works.

My biggest concern is that NE MN becomes the next Appalachia. Have any of you been through WV and seen what mountain top removal mining has done to the land out there. Pillage is not a strong enough word.

The mining thing seems so boom and bust I am just surprised that more effort isn't done to ween the region off of mining and onto something a bit more stable. There are huge opportunities right now as the big companies are seriously re-evaluating the results of the last 10 years of offshoring overseas. Plenty of them are looking for local US sites to put call centers, and hiring engineers. A municipality that was smart about this and developed the right infrastructure (data lines, an airport, etc) could really become a boon for the region. Its there for the taking if there was a little out of the box thinking.

I would be lying if I said that my bi-decade trips up to the range weren't great fun; but my playground is and will be continue to be the SE. The bluffs are beautiful, trout are better than walleyes , and the levels of rural-pretentiousness are not nearly as high. Maybe farmers are friendlier than miners? Who knows.

But things are not all rosy down there either, those towns are struggling too.

I do think this mining debate is part of a much larger issue, re-invention of small towns. Small towns all over the state and the country are in death throes, in my mind there should be a plan to reinforce them at the state and national levels. It should be a priority for our elected officials. Rather than the one off issue that gets dealt with (like this) there needs to be a comprehensive strategic plan focused on re-vitalizing the small towns. Its not that hard, it just isn't a focus. And it needs to be.

live from St. Paul, over and out.

To me it comes down to that the fact that there is a demand for these raw materials which means that they will need to be mined from somewhere.

I would much rather see the money kept here in MN.

As much as it might give some people warm fuzzies doing everything "green", it's hard to have your cake and eat it too. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try the best to protect the environment, but unfortunately the people fighting these things don't have any middle ground.

"That doesn't mean we shouldn't try the best to protect the enviroment, but unfortunately the people fighting these things don't have any middle ground."

Well said dtro. You're right, they don't have any middle ground. Somehow though, I think you were referring to the anti's. I think the mining companies really don't want to have to compromise, either.
For what it's worth, what I have a hard time understanding is why so many sportsmen aren't more interested in the welfare of the land. For what our interests are, we should be more inclined to want clean water, air and land. The fish and game we pursue depend on it. Am I just out of touch?