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#2071040 - 11/20/09 03:52 PM Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes
blackdog1101 Offline
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Registered: 11/15/05
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Loc: Lake Minnetonka
[Note from admin: Edited. Please read forum rules before posting again. Thank you.]

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Dreaded Asian carp may have breached $9M barrier meant to keep it out of Great Lakes
By Dan Egan , Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Last update: November 20, 2009 - 3:05 PM

The decade-old battle to keep Asian carp out of the Great Lakes may be over.

New research shows the super-sized fish likely have made it past the $9 million electric fish barrier on the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal, a source familiar with the situation told the Journal Sentinel late Thursday.

The barrier is considered the last chance to stop the super-sized fish that can upend entire ecosystems, and recent environmental DNA tests showed that the carp had advanced to within a mile of the barrier.

That research backed the federal government into a desperate situation, because the barrier needs to be turned off within a couple of weeks for regular maintenance. The plan is to spend some $1.5 million to temporarily poison the canal so the maintenance work can be done.

But even as those plans are being finalized the news everyone dreaded came: It might be too late.

MORE...
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#2071046 - 11/20/09 03:59 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: blackdog1101]
EBass Online   content
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Registered: 01/09/02
Posts: 4701
Loc: Eden Prairie, MN
Ah man - not cool! Thanks for the post
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#2071154 - 11/20/09 06:09 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: EBass]
yukon Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Family

Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 239
imagine that an electric fence didn't keep fish out. Hey on a side note can a guy get some carp that are commercially netted out of a clean lake for smoking?

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#2071163 - 11/20/09 06:15 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: yukon]
Steve Foss Online   wide-eyed
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 22196
Loc: Ely, MN
Here's the full story so you don't have to click a link and travel to get it.

Quote:
By Dan Egan , Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
The decade-old battle to keep Asian carp out of the Great Lakes may be over.

New research shows the super-sized fish likely have made it past the $9 million electric fish barrier on the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal, a source familiar with the situation told the Journal Sentinel late Thursday.

The barrier is considered the last chance to stop the super-sized fish that can upend entire ecosystems, and recent environmental DNA tests showed that the carp had advanced to within a mile of the barrier.

That research backed the federal government into a desperate situation, because the barrier needs to be turned off within a couple of weeks for regular maintenance. The plan is to spend some $1.5 million to temporarily poison the canal so the maintenance work can be done.

But even as those plans are being finalized the news everyone dreaded came: It might be too late.

Now the only thing left standing between the fish and Lake Michigan is a heavily used navigational lock at Navy Pier.

Army Corps officials declined to comment on the situation.

"I am not prepared to discuss this today, but I will be prepared to discuss this tomorrow," Col. Vincent Quarles, commander of the Chicago District of the Army Corps Engineers, said when asked about news that the fish had breached the barrier.

The Army Corps, along with its state and federal partners in the barrier's design and operation, has scheduled a news conference for 10 a.m. Friday.

The fish that can grow to more than 50 pounds or more are a big deal because they are voracious feeders, overwhelming native species, and they pose a huge hazard to recreational boaters because of their habit of jumping out of the water when agitated by the whir of a boat motor.

No fish have been found, but a new type of DNA testing that can show the presence of fish in the water shows that the barrier does not appear to have worked at stopping all the fish.

"We've got some bad problems," Dan Thomas, president of the Great Lakes Sport Fishing Council, said when told the news.

Thomas said the plan to poison the canal is going to have to grow to cover areas above the barrier, which is about 20 miles downstream from the Lake Michigan shoreline.

"Unless we treat that canal real quick as far up as we can, then we can almost be assured that they're on their way into the lake," he said.

For several years, the northern migration of the silver carp, which can grow to 50 pounds, had stalled in a pool just above the Dresden Island Lock and Dam on the Des Plaines River southwest of Joliet, Ill. - about 20 miles downstream from the barrier.

In August the Journal Sentinel learned the environmental DNA testing that biologists had quietly begun using on the canal revealed that the fish had started to move again. It's been all hands on deck ever since.

In addition to plans to poison the river, the Army Corps is scrambling to build a twin to the new barrier. It also is looking at building an emergency berm to prevent the fish from riding floodwaters from the carp-infested Des Plaines River into the canal above the barrier.

The two species of Asian carp threatening to invade Lake Michigan are silver and bighead carp. It's not known which species - or whether both species - have been detected above the barrier with DNA tests.

Silver carp are considered the bigger threat to the economy, ecology and culture of the Great Lakes because of the penchant for leaping out of the water and injuring boaters.

Silver carp were imported to Arkansas in the 1960s where they were used in federally funded sewage treatment experiments.

They escaped their containment ponds soon thereafter and have been swimming north since.
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#2071166 - 11/20/09 06:16 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: yukon]
andrew chadwick Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 880
Loc: duluth
why can't they just put up a dam? it seems to me that it would keep them out. Sure, it may keep the other fish out, but so does an electric barrier. Unless the dam was breached the only way they would get into the lake is if it is breached.

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#2071180 - 11/20/09 06:27 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: andrew chadwick]
dtro Online   sleepy

HotSpotOutdoors Staff Adminstrator

Registered: 08/19/00
Posts: 13068
Loc: South of the River
I cringe whenever I hear "poison a river" frown

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#2071224 - 11/20/09 07:10 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: dtro]
Northlander Offline

FishingMN Pro Staff

Registered: 02/17/02
Posts: 19692
Loc: Duluth Mn./Superior, Wi.
And now I hear that the powers to be arent making the lakers and salties treat their bilge/ballast water because it would be too expensive for them. At least for 5 years. Give me a FRICKIN break!!! 5 years is enough to bring every dang exotic species ever known to man into our ports. This is a joke! I always said on here that the all mighty shipping dollar would out weigh or clean waters. This is just more proof that they arent serious about our waters. The ships will keep dumping all this [PoorWordUsage] in our waters and they wont be expected to pay for the clean up it will be on all the rest of us.
The day will come where wash down stations will be at all our boat landings and we the average Joe's will have to pay to use them and get a ticket if we dont.
Why? Because these geniuses that run the show now wouldnt enforce a law because the multi billion dollar shipping industry said it was too expensive for their ships to treat their bilge waters. Absolutely a travisty!!!!
Who can we write to express out anger?

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#2071252 - 11/20/09 07:50 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: Northlander]
goblueM Offline
Sr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 2144
Loc: St. Paul/Blacksburg VA
amen, brother.

Look how many invasives are in the Great Lakes, most of which came thru ballast water. How many billions of damage have they caused? And that's to the economy, not even putting a dollar figure on the changes to aquatic ecosystems that aren't measureable in economic terms.


"Too expensive to treat"???? Bull. Its too expensive not to treat it.
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#2071297 - 11/20/09 08:19 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: Northlander]
alwaysonthemove Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 247
Loc: somewhere out there!
Of course this is america the almighty pass the buck society
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#2071300 - 11/20/09 08:21 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: alwaysonthemove]
alwaysonthemove Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 247
Loc: somewhere out there!
Just saying that money will always overide any invasive/pollution situtations out there. Leave it to the white middle class they will support us with money/taxes. To fix any problem that we have created.
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#2071332 - 11/20/09 08:48 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: Northlander]
elkrivermn Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 280
Loc: Big Lake
Well said Northlander!!!

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#2071393 - 11/20/09 10:11 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: elkrivermn]
gritsnham Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 680
Loc: Duluth, MN
Its sad and bad enough that we have so many problems with invasives that in the forseeable future we cannot fix and still somehow the lesson is not learned. These carp have been slowing going up the river and everyone knew it and they still cant stop them...what a joke. The ballast water problems are even worse and have been known about forever but they still put lame regulations in effect that dont stop anything from being introduced. The future sure looks great for out waters...
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#2071410 - 11/20/09 10:52 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: gritsnham]
Far-I Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 327
Loc: UTM Zone 15 N
I have been actually dreading reading this article for a few years now ever since i researched the topic for a report.

It will be a sad day on the big pond when people are bow-fishing asian carp while drinking beer and rocking mullets.

Just like anyone expresses in terms of natural resource management "NOT IN MY BACKYARD!"
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#2071423 - 11/20/09 11:07 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: Far-I]
crappiebuster Offline
HSO Family

Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 65
Loc: Northern Iowa
I found zebra mussells in one of our local lakes a few years back. 3 yrs later and you catch them every cast seems like. Every rock has it on the lake seems like every dock pole. And the Iowa dnr doesnt declare it infested and fails to put in boat washing stations..........Sad!!

Lets spread all this shtuff to other waters and other states I guess is what theyre trying to tell the average boater. I think the common man and State and local even federal agencys dont give a damm about invasive species.


Edited by crappiebuster (11/20/09 11:08 PM)

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#2071464 - 11/21/09 04:47 AM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: crappiebuster]
Surface Tension Offline

HotSpotOutdoors PR Administrator

Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 14389
Loc: Twig, Mn
Fun reading here.
Great Lakes Aquatic Nonindigenous Species List
Then there is VHS (viral hemorrhagic septicemia)

While all the above is allowed to be introduced into the Great Lakes, we're asked to not spread it into Inland Waters.

That isn't working out to well.
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#2071575 - 11/21/09 10:31 AM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: Surface Tension]
Northlander Offline

FishingMN Pro Staff

Registered: 02/17/02
Posts: 19692
Loc: Duluth Mn./Superior, Wi.
Like I said they drag it into our waters but then its our job to make sure it dont get spread? Give me a break!!!

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#2071776 - 11/21/09 05:28 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: Northlander]
jaxstas Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 310
Loc: Duluth
Here is a question. How would those carp fair in Lake Superior? Seems like they wouldn't enjoy the habitat. The other great lakes though may be prime real estate since I would think there would be a lot they could eat. Carp anyone? Sad, very very sad.

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#2072649 - 11/22/09 08:50 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: jaxstas]
kevheads Offline
IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 28
Loc: central IL.
Not sure how they would fair out in Superior.One biologist said,they are a cold water fish and their native range is in China all the way up into Siberia.So here, Chicago would be considered the edge of their southern range.The way they multiplied down here in the Illinois river,every tributary stream and river in the Lakes would be devastated.
Once in the Lakes,how long will it take for them to get from Chicago to Duluth? It took them alittle over ten years to get from Mississippi to Chicago.

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#2072657 - 11/22/09 08:57 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: jaxstas]
Steve Foss Online   wide-eyed
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 22196
Loc: Ely, MN
Originally Posted By: jaxstas
Here is a question. How would those carp fair in Lake Superior? Seems like they wouldn't enjoy the habitat. The other great lakes though may be prime real estate since I would think there would be a lot they could eat. Carp anyone? Sad, very very sad.


Hard to say, of course. L.S. is a cold-water habitat. Too cold? Dunno. If that's not enough to their liking, there are some large L.S. bays with warmer temps.

It's a lose-lose, as far as I'm concerned.
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#2072675 - 11/22/09 09:10 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: Steve Foss]
Northlander Offline

FishingMN Pro Staff

Registered: 02/17/02
Posts: 19692
Loc: Duluth Mn./Superior, Wi.
They better start taking some drastic steps to stop them babies NOW! It was only a matter of time when they put a band aid (electric barrier? Please!)on a gusher. Looks like Ill start welding a cage for my Lund so I dont get killed when a 100# invasive species jumps up in front of me at 45 mph.

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#2072681 - 11/22/09 09:17 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: Northlander]
Steve Foss Online   wide-eyed
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 22196
Loc: Ely, MN
Commerce trumps environment every time in this country. Always been that way, probably always will be. I'm NOT going apeshnit political here. Just the reality in the United States over the long haul. If it's good for commerce, it's good for America.

I'd bet my 401K fortune (OK, there isn't one) that no steps drastic enough will be taken until the Asian carp is firmly established, and then it'll be too little too late and we'll have to see how the ecosystem levels out over time to compensate for an new invasive species.

Hey, we've got some species that weren't natural to L.S. that man dimly understood but introduced on purpose, so how do we know that the Asian carp won't actually help the fishery?

I'm all for being proactive and pushing our elected officials to do the right thing. But at some point it's hard not to give up, lay back, and let 'em rape what they're going to rape anyway, like it or not. In America, the dollar rules people rather than people ruling the dollar.
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#2072908 - 11/23/09 08:27 AM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: blackdog1101]
musky hunter Online   content
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 820
Loc: Duluth, MN, St. Louis
I've been dreading this news for a long time. Let's just hope the colder environment doesn't work so well for their reproductive systems, and the rocky bottoms of Lake Superior offer no nutrition for this ugly specie.

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#2072928 - 11/23/09 08:56 AM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: musky hunter]
TR21 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors Family

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 330
Loc: Minnesota
They're easy to get rid of. You just drive by and when they jump, you shoot them with a shotgun. I watched a bunch of southern boys in Arkansas do this and it was hilarious. They actually put corragated metal on the front of the boat to protect the driver and they have a guy in the back as the shooter. Up here couldn't you electroshock a large area and just pick them up?

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#2073024 - 11/23/09 10:37 AM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: TR21]
jaxstas Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 310
Loc: Duluth
Talked to a buddy of mine that worked on that electric fence. He said it was originally put in to stop the Gobies, which we all know didn't work. He stated that this wasn't going to stop this fish because the eggs float. So the scenario would be this. A bird lands in the water and the eggs attach to the bird. Then it lands on the other side of the electric barrier and the eggs fall off. You know how the rest goes. He figured it might take at least 10 years for them to really take hold. They are filter feeders, so they'll sit at the mouths of rivers and eat any egg, insect, or frye that comes through. On top of that they get 50lbs in rivers! So who knows how big they'll get in the Great Lakes. Add to that the fact they reproduce and grow fast, they end up out competing everything. The really interesting thing is that these fish originally came from a fish farm where they were genetically altered to not reproduce, turns out mother nature disagreed.

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#2073113 - 11/23/09 12:04 PM Re: Asian Carp May Have Reached the Great Lakes [Re: jaxstas]
kevheads Offline
IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 28
Loc: central IL.
talk about out competing other fish,one report down here in the Illinois river around Peoria stated that the Asian carp makes up 95%(pounds per acre) of the fish. Though I'm guessing their size has alot to do with that statistic since they average 15-20 lbs.
2 good videos on youtube are "Asian Carp Invasion Part 1 & 2)

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