Hotspotoutdoors

Del,
You are right. I was at the meeting that was held in Tower and it sounds like the Coast Guard is serious about enforcement of this law this time!
There were only about 4 people at this meeting because there was almost NO advance notice posted. I only heard about the meeting because Ace called me 1/2 hr. before the meeting. He only knew about the meeting because the Coast Guard hat stopped at the Y-Store where his wife Sandy works and talked to her!
A future meeting is in the planning stages and will probably be held soon.
Cliff

Simply mental.
Silly to say the least.

Who can we call or write to ask cuestions on this matter?
Maybe complaine as Shamrock says.......about how all this is handled.

If ya aint local you can't find out?
If you don't have internet you miss this silly stuff.
If you no read the local newz your out of luck.
Just silly n weird.

Everything Shamrock says below is how I feel.
Got to have some of my connections find out what is the low down an skinny for real on this silly junk.

Why wuold the coast gaurd stop at Y sotre an talk to Terrys wife...?
Thats nuts!!
What she got to do with anything about something like this?

How did they call the meeting...drive down 53 an yell out the window?

Don't anyone lives on the lake seasonal an guide long time count?

We non Tower / Cook / Soudan Residents bring tons of money tons of money to the area be it our own or clients....an play by all rules.

Sounds really silly to read this stuff is happeneing an NO ONE contacts people that need to know or would like to know or care.
Freaky weird.

Freaky strange not one of the guides I know E-mailed or called me about any of this meeting stuff.
Early or late...very disapointing.

T

It doesn’t surprise me that there was little or no public announcement of this meeting. The CG didn’t want this meeting to be a forum for heated public debate on this issue but rather instead they used this meeting to get the word out (via The TimberJay article) about their unwavering intent to enforce these new requirements- like it or not!

How sad indeed this is.

Stizo

Pretty poor way of doing business. Just like the first contact they made here when they stopped by this summer and wanted us to contact all the guides and let them know about this.

If we tried to do business like this, we would be out of business in no time.

I think the best thing that everyone, not just those effected by this, is contact their representatives and complain #1 about the silliness of this license on inland waters. If they HAVE to have a silly license, create something that is more practical for inland waters and #2 complain about the way this whole issue has been handled. Why have a meeting if they are only going to tell a clerk at a local gas station.

I know that I am emailing mine right now.

I emailed Representative Oberstar's local contact person and he said that he has already been in contact with the Coast Guard on this matter. I have a meeting with him on Tuesday night so I will get the details then and report back.

Tommy,
The only reason Sandy found out was because they stopped at the Y and she saw the Coast Guard patches on their shirts and asked "what was up!"
Cliff

Thanks Shamrock.

Any info you get would be a huge help to me...I'm sure a few others.


Cliff.
No frown.
No ill to Sandy from me....I just find it nuts they call meeting an only tell WHO?

Not me, not you...WHO...Marshall at Timber Jay.....com'on...Silly.

If Sandy no have heads up...no one knows?
Silly x 1000

Can't use the good words online...but most are laughable.

Still disapoiinted no one even bother to E-mail me about any of it.

I'll be fine guide wise or not...not life or death......just find this whole deal odd.

Plus is sound slike Shamrock has a connection to the man... so be it.
RIGHT ON!


Think this whole deal could be handled better.

This is a typical tactic used by our government agencies to get their agendas in place, we went through this here a couple years ago with the u s fish and wildlife service on new proposed rules for the refuge system winona mn. -rock island il.they held there meetings during the week while everyone is at work.it is another example democratic leadership and yes congress has been controlled by them since 2006,its you better abide by the rules but when it is us, catch us if you can kinda like Tim Gieghtner hes sorry he didnt pay 40 grand worth of taxes try and tell em youre sorry see what happens!!

So the only way to find out about the meeting(and I presume open to the public) is that the Coast Guard stopped into the Y-Store? What a crock!
I can tell Tommy is upset at locals for not telling him also. But there was not much time from when anyone found out about the meetng and as it was jsut happenstands that ANYONE even fouend out abuat the meeting.

So was ther ever a probelm with those who the Coast Guard are going after on LV?

Gees does't teh Governenebt can even deiced what to do in Afganasan and theres the Irag and Ira

No problems for anyone on Vermilion yet. That will probably come sometime next summer when they show up and start snooping around! I would guess, looking to set an example!
The Coast Guard reps that were at the meeting seemed to be trying to make things as simple as they can to assist those of us that are interested in getting the 6-pack lic. But we all know how Big Brother usually works!
I will certainly do my best to relay any info. that I hear Tom.
Cliff

http://www.oberstar.house.gov//index.asp?Type=B_LIST&SEC={AF74BAFF-6820-45D4-81A6-E450E544722C}

Here is a link to Jim Oberstar's Minnesota offices. Contact the office in your area and let them know your concerns. My contact is Pete Makowski. (Not with the man himself)

Would be a good idea to be talking to Mr Frankin and Ms Klobuchar also.

One way to get your congressman or senator's attention more quickly is to write hand written letters instead of e-mail. From what i've been told by former staffers on Capitol Hill, a hand written letter is perceived as having a particular emotion and purposefulness that is beyond an e-mail, and are taken much more seriously by elected officals.

I plan on writing a letter to all three of my Minnesota representatives, and make certain to make the letter personal.

In talking to Pete this morning, (Oberstar's area rep) he stated that he has been working on this since late last week. He did find out that the ID requirements have been dropped in a bil that was approved by the Legislators last week but is not sighed into law. Not that the $132.00 that would have cost is that big a deal.

He also stated that the person that works with the Coast Guard for Oberstar is working on this and will be getting info back to Pete as it is available.

But remember, just because something is happening with this, doesn't mean that all those effected shouldn't still take the time to let them know your thoughts.

It is spreading. From todays star-tribune. Is this part of what may be a federal takeover of our waters?

Heavy-handed gospel about guide licensing spreads north
The Coast Guard-- for safety's sake, it says -- is stepping up enforcement -- and hurting the wallets -- of small operations on northern lakes.

Courtesy of the U.S. Coast Guard, the pain felt by fishing guides on the Mississippi and Minnesota rivers beginning this summer is about to spread north, first to Lake Vermilion and the American side of the Boundary Waters stretching east and west of Ely, and soon perhaps to other major Minnesota lakes -- including Mille Lacs, Upper Red, Lake of the Woods and the Whitefish Chain.

Guides in and around the Twin Cities and as far south as Winona who work on the Minnesota and Mississippi rivers first heard in June that the Coast Guard was intent on enforcing a decades-old licensing requirement that would affect them in many ways. At issue is the Guard's "6-pack'' license for captains of boats that carry for hire six or fewer passengers -- a description that covers virtually all fishing guides in the state.

Generally, guides wanting to hold the license must attend a course in preparation for a Coast Guard exam. Total cost: about $1,000.

Much as it might want to, the Coast Guard can't enforce its licensing requirement on all Minnesota's fishing guides -- only those who ply what the federal government calls "navigable waters.''

Unfortunately -- if you're a guide -- in Minnesota "navigable waters'' covers a lot of territory, as outfitters and guides on Lake Vermilion and in the Ely area are about to find out.

Actually, guides in Ely already know. Last week, Commander Mike Lebsack of the guard's Marine Safety Unit in Duluth was scheduled to meet with outfitters and commercial operators in the area. Lebsack has a similar gathering planned for Tuesday with Lake Vermilion guides.

It's difficult to overstate the effect this will have on guides and resort owners in these areas. Guides don't make a lot of money, and for that reason there aren't many of them. Resort owners and outfitters nevertheless are dependent on guides, particularly good ones, to accommodate their many clients who don't have the skill or experience to catch fish on their own.

Some guides will decide it's not worth the trouble to get a Coast Guard license, and instead look for other work. That said, it seems apparent the Coast Guard -- which at times played the heavy last summer in its dealings with Twin Cities area guides -- now appears to be taking a more sensitive approach to its expansion into waters of the northeast.

"The primary concern for the Coast Guard and all other agencies that have a stake in the enforcement of licensing requirements on federal navigable waterways is safety,'' Coast Guard spokesman David French wrote in an e-mail Thursday from Cleveland. "We want to ensure that all operators of uninspected passenger vessels have the appropriate safety equipment and level of boating and operational expertise required to keep their passengers safe while on board these vessels.''

That French had no idea where Ely was when I asked about the guard's expansion into the area should come as no surprise. Last summer, I asked a spokesman in the Twin Cities Coast Guard office whether Lake Winnibigoshish is under, or will come under, the licensing requirements, and he said, "Where's that?''

To which I said: "How long have you been stationed in Minnesota?''

He said: "One year.''

Here's the problem: There is no problem. And try as it might, the Coast Guard won't find one, at least not with inland Minnesota fishing guides.

Yet it's apparent a decision has been made in Washington to expand the Guard's authority, if only to protect its turf, budget or both.

Does a canoe guide who takes clients to Basswood Lake in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, for example, really need to be licensed by such a large bureaucracy?

An argument can be made, of course, that "we can never be too safe.''

But a more convincing argument says overregulation is bad, even counterproductive. Which is the case here.

Dennis Anderson

"We want to ensure that all operators of uninspected passenger vessels have the appropriate safety equipment and level of boating and operational expertise required to keep their passengers safe while on board these vessels.

I’m pretty sure everyone would agree with this quote.

So what changed? Were they not concerned before?

It’s nonsense, it really is.

Mississippi river? OK fine

Lake Vermilion, Basswood and Whitefish Chain? Gimme a break

And doesn't that safety equipment requirement already exist via DNR rules/laws? The DNR and sheriffs already check for that stuff. This is an example of government getting too big, IMHO. What, are they going to require me to have a license for my paddle boat?... doh, the DNR already does! heh! (edit, okay registration not license...)

It's a good thing - everyone should be treated the same when guiding for pay. Business expense, no question.

Well in that case all guides in MN should be treated the same, Navigable waters or not.

Right??

Lake Vermilion is no different than Mille Lacs or URL, and if you ask me ML and URL has a potential to be a heck of a lot more dangerous than Vermilion.

Wow sorry for all who are affected by this. What a joke and waste of time and $$$ all around.

Lake of the Woods resorts have had to deal with the license for 30 years. Size of boat shouldn't matter if you are guiding someone fishing.
I don't agree with the license making them safer, there are guides on LOW with the license that I wouldn't trust.

Does anyone know when and where the meeting will be held Tuesday? I guide in a different area of the state but will be affected just as everyone else and would like to get a little information, which by the way seems to be like pulling teeth, to get the Coast Guard to let people know ahead of time. Agreed if/when this goes through, it will drastically cut the amount of guides out there state wide. I have no problem with needing some sort of a certificate or liciese but the 6 pack seems way over kill for inland waters. Also the DNR seems to be a much better fit for tackleing something along these lines. How can a guy that guides seasonally finacially justify paying $1000, for the 6 pack, another $600-$800 for guide insurance and not to mention other expenses? I'm all for safety, but this just doesn't seem right. Thanks.

Fortune bay casino lake vermillion 7pm.

Careful might be one of those sting operations where they lure the criminals in and bust them like on TV, lol!

I just read in the Timberjay that it is cancelled for tonight and will be rescheduled for early December?

There is an interesting interview with the Griz in the Star tribune. It exposes how heavy-handed this is.

Fishing guide Richard Grzywinski on the Mississippi River.

One of Minnesota's finest fishing guides had to dock his boat for the first time in 35 years because of a licensing issue.


Richard (Griz) Grzywinski is one of Minnesota's best known -- and best -- fishing guides. In July, he and other guides were notified by the Coast Guard that unless they held Coast Guard "6 Pack" licenses, they could no longer guide on the Mississippi or St. Croix rivers, or on any of the state's many other federally "navigable" waters -- including Mille Lacs, the entire border waters, Upper Red, Winnibigoshish, Leech, Gull, the Whitefish Chain and Vermilion.

Forced off the water for the first time in 35 years, Griz two weeks ago enrolled in a course in preparation for the 6-Pack test.

The interview below details the predicament Griz and hundreds of other Minnesota fishing guides are in, as the Coast Guard without advance notice this summer began enforcing on inland waters a licensing requirement that is decades old -- but that has long been ignored by the government and guides alike.

Q When did you first start guiding?

A About 35 years ago. That's when I went full time. I guided before that when I was working a job. But 35 years, full time.

Q You're known as a river guide now. But for decades, you guided all over the state.

A I guided everywhere. My boat used to have a sign on it, "Have boat, will travel." I'd begin at the end of March in Red Wing. Then I'd fish the St. Croix for a month. Then up to Winnie and Leech until September, before coming back to the rivers and guiding until freeze-up.

Q And now?

A I'm older. I just stay on the rivers. I got rid of my Ranger (boat) and now just have a johnboat.

Q How old are you?


A Sixty-eight.

Q When did you first hear that the Coast Guard was enforcing its licensing requirements for guides on Minnesota's "navigable waters

A July 27. I got a phone call at home. I had been working on the river for four days straight. Usually if I do that, I take a day off and lay around the house and relax. I think it was around 1 p.m. when I got a call. The guy said, "Who am I speaking to?" I said, "Richard Grzywinski." He said, "Do you guide on the St. Croix and Mississippi?" He didn't say who he was. He said, "This is a warning. If we catch you tomorrow on the river ..." He told me, "Well, you got to have a license."

Q Josh Stevenson, owner of Blue Ribbon Bait in Oakdale and also a guide on the river, also was notified by the Coast Guard.

A He got a call the next day. "Get off the river," he was told.

Q Did you stop guiding?

A I was told I could be fined every day if I didn't. Now I'm in dry dock.

Q Where on the Mississippi and St. Croix rivers do you fish most?

A All the way to Winona, Lake Pepin, the backwaters everywhere between those spots, and everywhere north, too, to Red Wing and all the way up to Pool 3, Pool 2. The St. Croix, I fished that all my life. I fish Red Wing beginning the end of March. Then about the 15th of April the fish quit there when the spawn goes on. I hunt turkeys for two weeks when that happens. The St. Croix opens up the beginning of May, and I fish near Prescott for that month. When the boat traffic gets to be too much on the Croix, I go to the Mississippi.

Q When the Coast Guard told you that you needed a license to guide on the Minnesota and Mississippi rivers, as well as many other lakes and rivers in Minnesota, they also told you that a course would be offered to prepare for the test, but that the course didn't start until November. They didn't offer to let you work until then?

A They could have let us finish our year off, so we had some money to eat. But they wouldn't. I had to cancel all my booked trips. Plus the cost of the course, which was $650, I had to come up with that. So with about 20 other guys I started the course two weeks ago. The course lasted Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday one week, and the same schedule the next week. Then last Sunday we took the test. The material was supposed to be spread out over a longer time. But that's the way this course was run. It was an independent guy who taught it, and he did a good job. It wasn't the Coast Guard, though a Coast Guard guy was there one day.

Q When you walked into the class, did you know what it would be about?

A I didn't have any idea. I wanted to keep working. So I knew I had to take it. Our teacher was great. But I didn't do so good in the class. I went in there knowing that my education was junk.

Q What grade did you drop out of school?

A Ninth. I wasn't good at school. I like to hunt and fish too much. Most guys bring their books to school. I'd bring my rod or gun and put it in my locker. I went to the old Johnson High School on Arcade Street.

Q So if you were at school and it looked like a good hunting day what did you do?

A Take my gun out of my locker and hitchhike to Hugo. A kid could do that back then. I had my gun in a case, so it was OK. I'd hunt all day, then I'd hitchhike home or walk home, carrying rabbits and squirrels and pheasants. Them were the good days. You don't do that anymore. Then, at 16 years old I started working construction. I was a laborer at $2.75 an hour. When you were making good money like that, you didn't think about an education.

Q In the class were you given books?

A Yes, they handed out books. The big book was 348 pages. And that ain't counting the flash cards, which showed various boat sizes and types. Two green balls means do not pass on this side. Two balls and a triangle means restricted, unable to maneuver. Another sheet had all the different markers on two sides of it. Another was about barges and the lights they display at night showing how long they are. Mine sweepers, you have to know that one. The hardest ones are the horn signals for on the ocean, which tell where you're going to pass, on the port or starboard sides. To learn and remember all this in seven days is a lot. Also, if you pass, you have to buy all new life jackets, flares, marine radios, orange smoke signals and a Breathalyzer, I guess to test for drunken passengers. You also have to pass a CPR course and get a passport. And there are drug tests.

Q Did you study while in the class?

A Yes. Josh and I studied together for three days. Then we went back and we even stayed after the class with the teacher for an hour and a half. It's not an easy course. We're on inland waters here. I told the guy I drive a 16-foot johnboat. He said to just forget about my fishing boat. This license is for boats up to 100 feet.

Q You studied navigation, too?

A Yes. We worked on an ocean map of Long Island Sound. We had to figure out longitude and latitude. We had to figure out a ship's course. Then sit down and figure out the speed and how long it would take you to get to your destination.

Q Did you pass the test?

A I flunked. A guy from Duluth, I let him stay at my house to cut expenses. He has a master's degree and he flunked, too. Out of 17, we had six that flunked.

Q Do you think the course is overkill for guiding on inland waters? You've guided for more than 50 years and never had an accident.

A If you're in Alaska or Florida on the ocean, then ya, OK, I could see it. I've never hurt anyone guiding. It's overkill for inland guides. There should be a different class for us.

Q At any time did you think you would pass the course?

A I knew I'd flunk before I started. Reading and stuff like that, I haven't done that for years. I'm not ashamed of it. It's like anything. You don't use it, you lose it. I use the stuff I use every day. I'm the professor on the water. But when you don't read and write for 50 years, you lose it.

Q Do you do any recreational reading?

A Not much. When I get off the river, I load the boat up with gas. I load the truck up with gas. I drive home, clean everything and get the equipment ready for the next day. Then I eat and go to bed.

Q Do you think you know the Mississippi and St. Croix better than the Coast Guard personnel assigned to them?

A Hands down.

He's "grizz" still up there studying and attempting to pass the test.


Between the Dennis Anderson article in todays Star/Trib and the Bear Facts and Fish-tales radio show there seems to be a bit of a ground swell against the Coast-Guards perceived archaic requirements..

Supposedly they have contacted Rep Oberstar and he wants to supposedly have a meeting of guides back here in Minnesota to discuss the` issue.