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#1930485 - 06/29/09 10:20 AM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: Sandmannd]
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Sr HSOList.com Family
Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 1565
Loc: Rock Crick
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Even if we subscribe to the idea of global warming.
According to data from the Global Carbon Project, from 2000 through 2007 China’s carbon dioxide emissions increased 98 percent, India’s increased 36 percent and Russia’s increased 10 percent. Carbon dioxide emissions in the United States increased by three percent
As time goes on, the United States will emit a smaller and smaller share of the world’s total greenhouse gas emissions, which makes unilateral efforts— such as a domestic cap and trade program—an ineffective way to influence climate. If the United States were to completely cease using fossil fuels, the increase from the rest of the world would replace U.S. emissions in less than eight years. If we reduced the carbon dioxide emissions from the transportation sector to zero, the rest of the world would replace those emissions in less than two years. Increases in worldwide carbon dioxide emissions are driven by developing economies, not the United States.
So, the the liberals in congress invent a crisis, (global warming) then create the largest regressive tax in the nations history (cap and trade) to solve the invented crisis. (145 billion a year)
This is nothing more than a money grab.
The government creating a new revenue stream at your expense.
This will have absolutely no effect on the environment.
Very likely will have a devastating effect on the U.S. economy.
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#1930539 - 06/29/09 10:50 AM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: Uncle Bill]
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Sr HSOShow.com Family
Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 4843
Loc: North of Duluth
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Even if we subscribe to the idea of global warming.
According to data from the Global Carbon Project, from 2000 through 2007 China’s carbon dioxide emissions increased 98 percent, India’s increased 36 percent and Russia’s increased 10 percent. Carbon dioxide emissions in the United States increased by three percent
As time goes on, the United States will emit a smaller and smaller share of the world’s total greenhouse gas emissions, which makes unilateral efforts— such as a domestic cap and trade program—an ineffective way to influence climate. If the United States were to completely cease using fossil fuels, the increase from the rest of the world would replace U.S. emissions in less than eight years. If we reduced the carbon dioxide emissions from the transportation sector to zero, the rest of the world would replace those emissions in less than two years. Increases in worldwide carbon dioxide emissions are driven by developing economies, not the United States.
So, the the liberals in congress invent a crisis, (global warming) then create the largest regressive tax in the nations history (cap and trade) to solve the invented crisis. (145 billion a year)
This is nothing more than a money grab.
The government creating a new revenue stream at your expense.
This will have absolutely no effect on the environment.
Very likely will have a devastating effect on the U.S. economy. All true. Also, the bill gives alot more authority to the UN
"Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw."
The Trees by Rush
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#1930540 - 06/29/09 10:52 AM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: Sandmannd]
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Sr HSOShow.com Family
Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 4843
Loc: North of Duluth
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the 24/7 Micheal Jackson coverage overshadowing it.
Geez, poor Farrah. I agree, she didn't even get a day to herself!! all men between th ages of 45 and 55 who had that famous poster of her in the 1970's on their wall as teenage boys raise their hands. count me as one. i had two of her
Edited by tacklejunkie (06/29/09 10:53 AM)
"Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw."
The Trees by Rush
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#1930551 - 06/29/09 11:05 AM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: tacklejunkie]
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Sr HSOShow.com Family
Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 4386
Loc: Up north, MN USA
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She was a looker, no doubt..
I saw the Jackson Five perform live at the Minnesota State Fair in about 1969, and I thought they were pretty good, but as to Michael Jackson - well, what can you say...the press will do about anything for some market share??
Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#1930667 - 06/29/09 12:35 PM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: tacklejunkie]
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Sr HSOShow.com Family
Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3577
Loc: WBL, MN & Crosslake weekender
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all men between th ages of 45 and 55 who had that famous poster of her in the 1970's on their wall as teenage boys raise their hands.
count me as one. i had two of her
42 now, and I had that poster!  I guess I started young 
-Box
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#1930677 - 06/29/09 12:41 PM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: Uncle Bill]
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HSO Legacy Member
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 6910
Loc: Osakis, MN
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Even if we subscribe to the idea of global warming.
According to data from the Global Carbon Project, from 2000 through 2007 China’s carbon dioxide emissions increased 98 percent, India’s increased 36 percent and Russia’s increased 10 percent. Carbon dioxide emissions in the United States increased by three percent
As time goes on, the United States will emit a smaller and smaller share of the world’s total greenhouse gas emissions, which makes unilateral efforts— such as a domestic cap and trade program—an ineffective way to influence climate. If the United States were to completely cease using fossil fuels, the increase from the rest of the world would replace U.S. emissions in less than eight years. If we reduced the carbon dioxide emissions from the transportation sector to zero, the rest of the world would replace those emissions in less than two years. Increases in worldwide carbon dioxide emissions are driven by developing economies, not the United States.
So, the the liberals in congress invent a crisis, (global warming) then create the largest regressive tax in the nations history (cap and trade) to solve the invented crisis. (145 billion a year)
This is nothing more than a money grab.
The government creating a new revenue stream at your expense.
This will have absolutely no effect on the environment.
Very likely will have a devastating effect on the U.S. economy. There is some data that is being left out of this. The United States is responsible for approximately 25.2% of the total worldwide GHG emissions. China is in 2nd place being responsible for about 15.2%. India contributes about 4.4% An increase of 98% from China and 3% from the US from the above data would put them above the US but not by much. A 36% increase from India wouldn't even keep them in the mix. What we are forgetting is that until recently, China and India were not industrialized nations and are now joining the ranks of the rest of us. Who are we to deny them this? From an annual per capita perspective things get even more obscure. United States - 19,400 metric tons China - 2,660 metric tons India - 960 metric tons China would have to increase their emission 7-fold to catch up to us on a per person basis and India...well they have a long way to go. What does that say for us? It says that we have no right to boast about our measly 3% gain. The United States emits more GHG annually than China, India, Russia, South Korea, Canada, Brazil, and the United Kingdom combined.
Bob
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#1930725 - 06/29/09 01:23 PM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: BobT]
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Sr HSOList.com Family
Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 1565
Loc: Rock Crick
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How recent is your data Bob ? No source ?  Using per capita statistics is misleading. The Census 2000 report, shows the United States, with a population of 281 million , ranking third behind China's 1.3 billion and India's 1 billion. It's a money grab, Bob. Don't fall for it.
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#1930795 - 06/29/09 02:47 PM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: Uncle Bill]
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HSO Legacy Member
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 6910
Loc: Osakis, MN
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Nationmaster dot com
EPA
About dot com
CarbonPlanet dot com
World Resources Institute
Actually, not using per capita slants the data because we each contribute. We have 1/4th the population of China and you don't think it's a bit odd that we produce as much GHG if not more? Who do we think we are?
I'm not falling for anything. I just think we like to talk the talk but we rarely walk the walk.
Bob
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#1930842 - 06/29/09 03:32 PM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: Uncle Bill]
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Sr HSOShow.com Family
Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 4386
Loc: Up north, MN USA
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So, the the liberals in congress invent a crisis, (global warming) then create the largest regressive tax in the nations history (cap and trade) to solve the invented crisis. (145 billion a year)
Yeah, they're thinking small, to start out with.... That's only about $475 apiece for every man, woman, and child in the U.S., if my math and your figures are correct... per year.
Edited by swamptiger (06/29/09 03:51 PM)
Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.
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#1930928 - 06/29/09 04:14 PM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: BoxMN]
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HSO Legacy Member
Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 11062
Loc: St. Paul, MN
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all men between th ages of 45 and 55 who had that famous poster of her in the 1970's on their wall as teenage boys raise their hands.
count me as one. i had two of her
42 now, and I had that poster! I guess I started young 38 and stold it from my brother, does that count?
"Making the decision to have a child is momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body." ~Elizabeth Stone
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#1930941 - 06/29/09 04:28 PM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: Uncle Bill]
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HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff
Registered: 12/02/01
Posts: 12691
Loc: So. Cent. MN
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Using per capita statistics is misleading.
Without a doubt.
 **Email** .¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((°>Arguing with an Engineer is a lot like mud wrestling a pig: After a few hours, you realize that he likes it.
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#1931462 - 06/30/09 05:44 AM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: LMITOUT]
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Sr HSOList.com Family
Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 1961
Loc: South Range, WI
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Hey boys and girls...there is a a TON of lakes around WI and MN that were carved out by a Glacier....thats a HUGE chunk of ice for those of you who don't know...But it melted...which tells me that at some point, this big marble we live on got really cold, then warmed up...was it campfires of cavemen and flatulance of the wooly mammoth that caused that global warming????
There are Lies, Dam Lies, and Statistics.
"Those who complain about the cost of freedom will never appreciate the value they received from those of us who have helped pay for it." ME
fishahollik@yahoo.com
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#1931470 - 06/30/09 06:18 AM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: BobT]
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IceLeaders.com Family
Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 32
Loc: hibbing,mn
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Good...YOU pay my cap and tax then
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#1933194 - 07/01/09 04:33 PM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: LMITOUT]
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Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family
Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 968
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Using per capita statistics is misleading.
Without a doubt. Of course people in the US produce more "greenhouse gas" per capita than someone in another country living in a grass hut or cave and riding a donkey to the local market. But if you have paid any attention to what the climate scientists have said, even the most adamant climate change predictors admit that the earth has been in a natural warming pattern for the past couple centuries, but human activity may be increasing the RATE of warming. So if everyone in the US abandoned our current standard of living and went back to living in grass huts or caves and rode donkeys to the market, the earth would still be warming.....naturally........Unless of course the natural warming trend reverses and climate begins to cool again as it has in past cycles. So I think I'll just relax and drive the F150 to work in the morning.
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#1935098 - 07/04/09 02:38 PM
Re: House passes "clean energy" bill
[Re: walleye101]
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Sr HSOShow.com Family
Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 4843
Loc: North of Duluth
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What's forgotten is the message, even if it fails in the Senate, this sends.
It says, the US will be a hostile business environment from here on out
"Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw."
The Trees by Rush
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