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#1147607 - 10/09/07 11:24 AM
Dog Training Material & Information
311Hemi Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 2680
Loc: Linwood, MN
I thought it may be helpful to make a list of some of the training materials out there that can be very beneficial in assisting in the training of your gun dogs, both young and advanced. Many of these programs will include information to help guide you from when you first bring home the little bugger to advanced training a couple years down the line. They each have their own process for developing the dog and it would be recommended to follow one program until you are comfortable with what you are doing and understand why your are doing it. For first time trainers mixing and matching different methods can easily confuse both dog and trainer and leave them wondering where they went wrong. This can cause more work in that you will need to both determine what happened with your training method and then determine how to correct. Both are not always fast or easy. Having one system to follow can be of benefit in that if you get stuck at some point there are others out there that know the system and can help get you back on track.

With that being said the first few of these are proven programs that are recommended by many people I have had contact with. This is by no means a complete list but only what I am personally aware of or have experience with. Please feel free to add to this list as I was just hoping to offer a start.

NOTE: I am going to keep updating this list as people add books below to make them easier to find. Thanks to everyone that helps out with this!!



RETRIEVERS
-The Smartwork series by Even Graham:
A proven training program that offers multiple training guides for both begging and advanced dogs, and at a good price. You can purchase items as you need them with specific guides and DVD for Force Fetch (FF), handling, water force, swim-by, etc. These can be found by doing a Google search for “Rushcreekpress”.

-Training the Pointing Labrador by Julie Knutson:
This is Julie’s new book that was just released this year and adds much more info than her original book (The Pointing Labrador). This book covers from puppy hood to advanced training. Julie helps the trainer get “into” the dogs head to help understand what the dog is thinking, which no other training material I have come across does. One big thing to note is that this book is not just for “Pointing Labs”. This is a good book for any dogs….with it’s primary focus on retrievers. It runs around $50 and is only available from Julie’s site. This book can be found by a Google search for “gunclub-labs”.

-The Total Retriever series by Mike Lardy:
While I have not had a chance to read through this material I have heard from multiple people that it is a very good and proven system. The majority of people I have talked to strongly recommend Mike’s Total E-Collar Conditioning. It is a little higher priced that the books like but comes with both a training manual and DVD. This material can be found by a Google search for “totalretriever”.

-The 10-Minute Retriever by John Dahl:
I read this book a while ago and don’t remember exactly what it covered and how (Contact Us Please) it got. I do hear it mentioned once in a while and know that it is sometimes recommended. I don’t know how much they cover in this book. It's certainly worth a read.

-Retriever Training Info! - Articles, Sources and Links:
This is a site that offers a lot of links to various retriever articles and information. There is A LOT of information here and it can be overwhelming to a new dog trainer. In my opinion if you are a new trainer there are some good reads here but you are much better off purchasing and following one proven system. With the info here you can mix and match training processes and can easily confuse your dog and yourself. To get to this site do a Google search for "carmody builders retriever training".



POINTERS
-Wing & Shot by Robert Whele:
This is the bible to many Pointer owners and for a reason. Whele is the breeder responsible for the Elhew line. Love em or hate em he was a genius with pointers, and his training program was well laid out in this book.

-Best Way to Train Your Pointer, The Delmar Smith Method by Bill Tarrant:
All I can say is Bill is an excellent outdoor writer, and teamed up with a winning trainer to write a great book. Delmar and his sons have proven their method over and over on the national field trial circuit.

-Speed Train Your Own Bird Dog by Larry Mueller:
This book doesn't get real high marks by me only because of the way he tells to discipline the dog in one part. Overall it is a good book, I have used Larry's Launcher design with some success before getting a remote launcher.

-Training Pointing Dogs DVD by George Hickox:
This is the only DVD that I'll add and that's only because this is the only one I have ever used anything off of. I have heard that Perfection Kennels also has a good one but I've never seen it so I can't say how it is. Hickox video moves along well and it is full of useful info.

-Overview of the West/Gibbons/Lindley "Silent" pointing dog training method by Jere Murry:
You can read about this method of training pointers by doing a Google search for "Overview of the West/Gibbons/Lindley "Silent" pointing dog training method." There is a video out that I have heard is not that best but shows this method in a training seminar.



SPRINGER SPANIELS
-Gun-Dog Training Spaniels and Retrievers by Kenneth C. Roebuck:
This is an older book and uses some of the older methods of training. It will give you a blend of training that can be used for both spaniels and retrievers.

-HUP Training Flushing Spaniels the American Way by James B. Spencer:
The second edition is more up to date on some of the training methods.

-The New Complete English Springer Spaniel by Julie Gasow and Edward K Roggenkamp III:
This book is split between the bench bred and the field bred springer spaniels. The field side gives you some useful training tips as well as some of the most well known springers from the past so you can look for them in pedigrees when researching for a new puppy.



E-COLLAR CONDITIONING
-Tri-Tronics Retriever Training Book by Jim and Phylis Dobbs
This book goes into great detail how to introduce the collar correctly and how to use it in different aspects of training. It is filled with easy to follow diagrams so you understand how to use it and when. It is around $30 and is available generally where Tri-Tronics collars are sold or right off their web-site. (Thanks Ken!!)

-Tritronics - Basic Dog Training:
This is a basic collar conditioning guide that is offered by Tritronics. It will cover a standard into to e-collar conditioning but is not as thorough as the complete training programs listed above that are focused on training gun dogs. This can be found by a Google search for “Tritronics Free Booklet”.



LIVE BIRDS FOR TRAININING
-North American Gamebirds Association (NAGA):
This site has what looks to be a good tool for locating where to purchase live game birds. Do a search for North American Gamebirds Association and then go to the "members" section and select the state you want to search. Thanks to cw642 for posting this in another thread!


Edited by 311Hemi (10/24/07 10:48 AM)
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#1147608 - 10/09/07 12:22 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
LABS4ME Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 5342
Loc: Cottage Grove , MN USA
Very good post 311! You have given out enough material that a guy could pick up and competently finish his dog. This list is obviously geared towards retrievers and another list should be started by someone for pointers and possibly even spaniels.

One other book of note for collar conditioning is: The Tri-Tronics Retriever Training book. It was written by Jim and Phylis Dobbs and goes into great detail how to introduce the collar correctly and how to use it in different aspects of training. It is filled with easy to follow diagrams so you understand how to use it and when. It is around $30 and is available generally where tritonics collars are sold.

Good Luck!

Ken

FishingMinnesota Sponsors

..."The best long range shotgun load to have in one's boat for mallards is a fine retriever."

Nash Buckingham
Field and Stream 1947
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#1147609 - 10/09/07 05:35 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
springerspeed Offline
HSOList.com Family

Registered: 02/25/04
Posts: 195
Loc: Buffalo, MN
For the spaniel in your life there are many book just like there are for retrievers and pointers. Here are a few that I think are a mainstay that are geared spacifically for spaniels. Keep in mind that any of the retriever books can offer many tips for spaniels as well.

Gun-Dog Training Spaniels and Retrievers by Kenneth C. Roebuck - This is an older book and uses some of the older methods of training. It will give you a blend of training that can be used for both spaniels and retrievers.

HUP Training Flushing Spaniels the American Way by James B. Spencer - The second edition is more up to date on some of the training methods

The New Complete English Springer Spaniel by Julie Gasow and Edward K Roggenkamp III - This book is split between the bench bred and the field bred springer spaniels. The field side gives you some useful training tips as well as some of the most well known springers from the past so you can look for them in pedigrees when researching for a new puppy.

All 3 of these books discuss the training process from puppy training to the most advanced training.

These are the 3 books that I recommend when a new puppy of mine goes to a new home. I also tell them that these are only starting points. Depending on how far they want to go with the training, I recommend joining a training club where they can get advise from people that have been around the block a few more times then I.

Look ahead to avoid trouble. Look back to run into it.
----------------------
Brian
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#1147610 - 10/09/07 07:41 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
Wormdrowner Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 124
Loc: Esko
Thanks for sharing. Wish I would have know about this site while I was looking for a dog, I sure would have had some questions for you guys. I wanted a good Grouse dog and a fishing buddy, anyway, I ended up with a British Yellow female. A friend recommened the Wolter's books, and I pretty much followed those to the letter. Don't know if this is an antiquated book by today's standards, but she has turned into everything I could have hoped for (inspite of my training). Have heard alot about the (Pointing Labrador) books, would that be worth reading even though i'm not interested in trying to bring that out of her.
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#1147611 - 10/10/07 06:47 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Wormdrowner]
superfish2 Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 273
Good post. I have several of those books. The one I relay on the most these days is the evan grahm smart works. It seems like one of the best books for advanced work.

I have Julie's first book, but haven't got the second pointing lab book yet.
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#1147612 - 10/10/07 07:44 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: superfish2]
311Hemi Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 2680
Loc: Linwood, MN
Wormdowner, there is nothing wrong with the Wolter's books and you can certainly train a gun dog by using them. I believe Wolter's was very good at what he did and these books were probably some of the best book out for a long time. I do personally feel they are a little outdated compare to whats out there today thus why I did not include them, but they are a good read (I read Gun Dog and Water Dog a few years ago) and will certainly get the job done.

Quote:

Good post. I have several of those books. The one I relay on the most these days is the evan grahm smart works. It seems like one of the best books for advanced work.

I have Julie's first book, but haven't got the second pointing lab book yet.




I agree, and I can tell you her new book is MUCH better than the old one! Right now I am trying to decide if I want to follow Smartwork or Julie's new book this spring when I bring home a new pup.
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#1147613 - 10/10/07 09:52 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
catnipmn Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Rosemount, Mn, USA
Any good books for pointers? If so please post them. Thanks!
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#1147614 - 10/10/07 10:33 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: catnipmn]
gonefishin11 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 498
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
Some excellent information here! Maybe this is a candidate to be tacked to the top of this forum. It can be used as a reference for training materials for all breeds as well as research to determine which breed fits best for each individual.
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#1147615 - 10/10/07 11:01 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: gonefishin11]
LABS4ME Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 5342
Loc: Cottage Grove , MN USA
good idea Gonefishin'

Good Luck!

Ken

FishingMinnesota Sponsors

..."The best long range shotgun load to have in one's boat for mallards is a fine retriever."

Nash Buckingham
Field and Stream 1947
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#1147616 - 10/10/07 11:45 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: LABS4ME]
uplander Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 366
catnipmn....."Do it right Do it yourself "..by Len Jenkins was my favorite book on pointers...Others I told of it also loved it.....uplander

Everything I learned about fishing, I learned from Setterguy!
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#1147617 - 10/10/07 07:26 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
Tom7227 Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 4323
Loc: White Bear Lake
I just went to Amazon and found about 20 books listed for pointing dogs. The search was "pointing dog training"

I don't have any of them so can't comment on quality. One author - Paul Long - was listed several times.

One of my problems has been trying to find some pigeons to train with. The only guy I've found wants $10 a piece for them. I don't know, but if they're homing pigeons I'm probably going to end up paying for the same birds over and over. Anyone have any other ideas?

Everybody is entitled to their own set of opinions, but not everybody is entitled to their own set of facts.
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#1147618 - 10/10/07 08:25 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: uplander]
catnipmn Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Rosemount, Mn, USA
Thanks uplander I will check it out
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#1147619 - 10/10/07 08:33 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Tom7227]
catnipmn Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Rosemount, Mn, USA
Thanks tom7227 for the info! Don't know where you live but I picked some up in prior lake for 5 each
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#1147620 - 10/11/07 08:26 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Tom7227]
superfish2 Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 273
The horse and hunt club has been selling them for $5 for the last couple of years.

Hemi,

Where are you getting your new dog? Another alma bottoms dog?
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#1147621 - 10/11/07 08:47 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: superfish2]
311Hemi Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 2680
Loc: Linwood, MN
Nope (for various reasons which I would talk about off line).

I have a deposit on the Jake x Scarlet litter out of Sauk River PL's.

Are you a member over that the MN PL site? I didn't see your screen name on there.
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#1147622 - 10/11/07 01:30 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
Tom7227 Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 4323
Loc: White Bear Lake
I just checked and was able to find the Len Jenkins book in the Ramsey County Library system. They only had the one book, and one video, under "Pointing Dogs - Training" Other library systems may have more available, or may have some of the books suggested earlier in this post. Sorry, but I have a hold on them in the Ramsey County system.

Thanks to those who have contributed to this thread. After looking around for a while on this website it's clear that I'm not the only one who is trying to figure things out.

Everybody is entitled to their own set of opinions, but not everybody is entitled to their own set of facts.
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#1147623 - 10/11/07 06:00 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
superfish2 Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 273
Hemi,

This is Joe from the other board. I have Sage if it helps you remember. I don't know much about Scarlett but it sounds like a good litter anything out from Sauk River from Jake is going to be good.
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#1147624 - 10/12/07 08:57 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: superfish2]
311Hemi Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 2680
Loc: Linwood, MN
aahhhh yes....Hey Joe how are ya?

I had no idea you were on this board!!! LOL
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#1147625 - 10/14/07 05:36 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
cw642 Offline
HSOList.com Family

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 221
Loc: central MN
Here is a brief list of a few books for the pointer training. I'll try in my descriptions to stay neutral, but I use a program that is a cross between Delmar's and Hickox's. Lots of birds then lots more birds.


Wing & Shot, by Robert Whele This is the bible to many Pointer owners and for a reason. Whele is the breeder responsible for the Elhew line. Love em or hate em he was a genius with pointers, and his training program was well laid out in this book.

Best Way to Train Your Pointer, The Delmar Smith Meathod, by Bill Tarrant All I can say is Bill is an excellent outdoor writer, and teamed up with a winning trainer to write a great book. Delmar and his sons have proven their method over and over on the national field trial circuit.

Speed Train Your Own Bird Dog, By Larry Mueller This book doesn't get real high marks by me only because of the way he tells to discipline the dog in one part. Overall it is a good book, I have used Larry's Launcher design with some success before getting a remote launcher.

Training Pointing Dogs. DVD by George Hickox This is the only DVD that I'll add and that's only because this is the only one I have ever used anything off of. I have heard that Perfection Kennels also has a good one but I've never seen it so I can't say how it is. Hickox video moves along well and it is full of useful info.

I'm sure there are a few others out there that I missed, and I know there is a few worse ones that I own that just don't pay to put down. Any of these will give you a good starting block to train your dog.

CW
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#1147626 - 10/17/07 12:02 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: cw642]
311Hemi Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 2680
Loc: Linwood, MN
cw642...thanks for the info!

Have you read much about the Bill West (Gibbons/Lindy) method?

I have an good overview of the method which is a good read.....but I don't think I can link the page here. I will try to come up wit some Google searches that are more dedicated to these training methods.
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#1147627 - 10/18/07 12:58 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
311Hemi Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 2680
Loc: Linwood, MN
For anyone interested, this is the recommended sequence for the Smartwork series by Evan Graham:

1. Smartwork volume one, which has a Puppy Program.
2. The Smartwork Obedience DVD
3. Read SmartFetch (the book), and solidify those concepts and techniques with...
4. The SmartFetch DVD.
5. Smartwork Basic Handling DVD.
6. Smartwork Water Force & Swim-by DVD.
7. Transition: Phase 1 (soon to be followed by Phase's 2 & 3
8. Smartwork II, Secrets of the Pros, which will take you through Late Transition to Advanced, + more.
9. At any point in the progression The "Men of Steel" DVD is a good study because Stickman drills can magnify your efforts and resources.

From Evan on another site:
Quote:

By design, the Smartwork system, as listed previously, follows a sequence of progression resulting in a precise handling dog. This begins with strong emphasis on Obedience, and progresses through all stages of force fetching, following a natural and logical path into and through the running of pattern blinds and all handling drills.

That's a large part of what makes a sequential system advantageous. Its components are contiguous ("touching or connected throughout in an unbroken sequence"); One phase leading to another. The further you follow the sequence, the better and more thoroughly your dog is trained.

If it is your desire to learn retriever training logically and systematically, I believe you'll love Smartwork!

EvanG


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#1147628 - 10/20/07 09:44 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
germanshorthairs Offline
HSOList.com Family

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 190
Loc: fort ripley
pointer training
The ultimate guide to bird dog training
by:Jerome B. Robinson

this book works absolutely great and is very easy to follow.
It really worked for my German Shorthairs
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#1147629 - 11/01/07 12:58 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: germanshorthairs]
R. Miller Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 517
Loc: Minnetonka
I would also highly recommend Ben O Williams "Bird Dog." He has a lot of insight when it comes to gun dogs, and specializes in pointing dogs. The book is based on the "instictive" training method. I have found it very useful and enjoyable.
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#1147630 - 11/01/07 01:04 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
311Hemi Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 2680
Loc: Linwood, MN
Ken, I cannot update the first post anymore to add the information that others are suggesting.

Is there any way you can resolve that?

Here is the msg: "This post can no longer be edited because the maximum edit time has expired"
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#1147631 - 11/08/07 06:37 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
Capt.Blaine Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 623
Loc: Saginaw MN
What material would you recommend for training a dog to flush grouse? I would like to be able to train her to work both sides of me back and forth. I don’t hunt pheasants or ducks. Most of the time I am hunting popple cuts. I am planning on covering the basic obedience stuff in a class at a local Kennel.

Email: captblaine@yahoo.com
2008 FM Fantasy NASCAR Champion
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#1147632 - 11/08/07 07:54 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Capt.Blaine]
LABS4ME Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 5342
Loc: Cottage Grove , MN USA
sorry Hemi,

I was deer hunting when you posted your question. Try again now, it should work for you.

Capt. Blaine, what kind of dog are you starting. Most of the books and materials above will help you, you just need to buy the ones focusing on flusher or pointer.

Good Luck!

Ken

FishingMinnesota Sponsors

..."The best long range shotgun load to have in one's boat for mallards is a fine retriever."

Nash Buckingham
Field and Stream 1947
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#1147633 - 11/09/07 07:12 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: LABS4ME]
311Hemi Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 2680
Loc: Linwood, MN
Thanks Ken. I tried it and it still give me the same message and I wont allow me to update it.
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#1147634 - 11/09/07 07:16 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: LABS4ME]
gspman Offline

HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 2050
Loc: Eagan, MN
Quote:

Have you read much about the Bill West (Gibbons/Lindy) method?




That method works just fine. There seems to be a religious following with the West method and you either love it or hate it for various reasons. Sorta like the Marcum vs. Vexilar argument that always heats up this time of year. Clearly the method works though. A lot of people use it to train flushers to point which I think is the point (pun intended) for some people. You are training the dog to point rather that letting it's instincts to tell it to point. Again, the method obviously works.

They're all broke 'til they break.
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#1147635 - 11/11/07 12:01 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: LABS4ME]
Capt.Blaine Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 623
Loc: Saginaw MN
LABS4ME
I am picking up a flushing lab soon. I'll have to check into the list on top of this post.

Email: captblaine@yahoo.com
2008 FM Fantasy NASCAR Champion
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#1234029 - 01/17/08 10:43 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
Scott M Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 8227
Loc: Little Bohemia
I need a little help. My wife and I are planning on purchasing a female black lab this spring and want to start our homework, research, and reading now.

She stumbled into a book while doing a little preparation and training search without me and thinks its the book we need since it covers every little detail from what to look for in the breed to how to make sure the dog gets along with vets. It seems to have a non-hunting approach. Granted this dog will also be a family dog, but the main purpose is hunting dog. The book is "Training Your Labrador Retriever" by September Morn. I'm a little skeptical, since its not a hunting based training book and the author's hippie parents named the author after a month of the year (okay, that wasn't very nice, but it shows I'm a little biased against the book).

I see the books and authors listed in this thread and they all seem so advanced or specialized. What can I get for someone 100% brand new to gun dogs, sporting breeds, training, etc. I mean, greenhand, wet-behind-the-ears simple. A couple options would be nice, and if they have already been listed, excuse my speed-reading and/or ignorance. Basically I want to have a nice gun dog, mostly for waterfowl hunting, with the occasional upland hunt of pheasants or grouse. Can you help me out?
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#1234211 - 01/18/08 07:13 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Scott M]
311Hemi Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 2680
Loc: Linwood, MN
da_chise, I would strongly recommend the "Training the Pointing Labrador" by Julie Knutson, even though you may not have purchased a pointing lab. It is a good book for ANY retriever.

This book is will cover everything from before the puppy all the way to advanced training that many will not do. I think it would be a GREAT book for someone new to training as explain what is going on in a dogs head and gets you to understand what your doing and why. Not many books out there that do this....at least that I have read.
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#1239541 - 01/21/08 05:59 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
hoggs222 Offline
Sr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 04/09/04
Posts: 2037
Loc: Andover, MN
Does anybody know of any books out there on Blackmouth Curs?
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#1247708 - 01/27/08 12:20 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
eagle_3464 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 346
Loc: Alex area
Hemi, what made you decide to get your next pup out of Sauk River? I just placed a deposit there myself this week. I have read alot of good things about the Morks, plus they are working with some top notch pedigrees there IMO.
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#1248178 - 01/27/08 08:41 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: eagle_3464]
311Hemi Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 2680
Loc: Linwood, MN
Eagle, I would be happy to talk to you more about it. Please email me at zach****ej1 (at) hotmail . com

Remove the **** from the email address.
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#1260271 - 02/04/08 03:28 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Scott M]
Jackpine Rob Offline
Sr HSOList.com Family

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 1679
Loc: stump creek, MN USA
An old but still relevant book that covers the basics well is called "Game Dog" by Richard Wolters. In addition to the training methods (which were revolutionary in their day), Wolters sprinkles in stories and examples.

His book follows the training of his own new lab pup, step by step - and explains not only what to do, but how to do it and more importantly "why".

I saw the pup that the book followed (Tar) work at Game Fair several years later. What a treat.

Still clinging bitterly to my guns and religion.
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#1318914 - 03/16/08 09:55 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Jackpine Rob]
Timber Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 173
Loc: NE MN
Hemi,

I e-mailed the Smartwork people and asked them which of their materials I'd need for my situation with my new pup, and they said the Smartwork Basics Pack, plus Transition; Phase 1. If I'm reading their website correctly, that would run about $150. Not very reasonable. Do I have this right?
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#1319231 - 03/16/08 05:34 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Timber]
grousehunter Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 476
Loc: Brookings, SD
I really like butch goodwins book. Retrievers... from the inside, out. It is very detailed and goes over everything from picking a breeder to advanced training and some extra fun stuff to teach your dog hunting related. It's well written and easy to follow and has stories throughout it to keep it interesting instead of just do this and then do this etc.
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#1487571 - 08/11/08 07:39 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: grousehunter]
gonefishin11 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 498
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
Are there any recommendations for material to train a British Labrador and for training with the British style?

I would like to research both the British and American styles to decide which I like better.

Another recommendation for a beginning trainer would be Joan Bailey "How to Help your Gun Dog Train Themselves."
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#1610718 - 11/26/08 11:44 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: gonefishin11]
Walleye Waltz Offline
IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 33
Loc: Omaha
Jackpine, I have to agree with you. i have used the wolters method on my last two labs and have had great turn out. I like the way he breaks it down. It reminds me of a who to train your retriever for dumbies book. Step by step how to examples and why you are doing it. I have the dvd of game dog and watching Tar in that movie is awesome! teh way he could stop her in mid water and turn here I got dizzy watching but Tar never faulted, pure awesome. the dvd I have referances the book so you can follow alone in the book and get a better example. One other book he has out that could help too is Water Dog. Another good book and dvd. based more toward your duck dog but does d oa good job going over the OB commands. I hunt a well rounded lab both water and upland and live by both of these book. I guess I go back to the you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Wolters did a great job and is a proven trainer. you can't go worng with one of his books or movies!

A bad day of fishing beats a good day at work any time!
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#1649529 - 12/17/08 05:56 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Walleye Waltz]
Weed Shark Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 10/13/05
Posts: 346
Here is one that was recently recommended to me that I have yet to read, but will be ordering.

Retriever Training For Spaniels: Working With Soft-Tempered, Hard-Headed, Intelligent Dogs
by Pamela Owen Kadlec

is a highly practical, "user friendly" guide to the art and science of teaching Spaniels to be effective retrievers and gun dogs, with special emphasis on the Boykin Spaniel. Individual chapters cover the difference in temperament between Spaniels and Labrador Retrievers, how to best use positive reinforcement and "clicker" training on a Spaniel puppy, things that must be taught to a puppy before it reaches six months of age, and a great deal more. Black-and-white photographs enhance and illustrate this clear, methodical, and straightforward text of this strongly recommended and specialized instruction book.
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#1684701 - 01/06/09 07:16 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Weed Shark]
ironrangegemneye Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 144
Loc: Hibbing
I am working with my first little male lab. He is now 11 months old and had a fantastic hunting season this past year with hunting grouse about a dozen times, pheasant 5 times, and duck about 8 times. Much of his hunting ability came from the pedigrees on both sides, but the training helped him direct his abilities.

I have used both Water Dog and Game Dog by Richard A. Wolters. Both books were very helpful from the time I got my pup at 7 weeks old. Also, both of the books remain on my night stand next to my bed so I can open them up and review their content.

I also picked up the Total Retriever series by Mike Lardy. I have begun reviewing that content and plan to use more of it in the spring once the snow disappears.

Does anyone have any training methods that they work on over the winter months? The few things we have been working on are short retrieves and lots of whistle command work while going for walks in the woods. I have shoveled straight paths in a field for short retrieves and am thinking about using the Double T also, along with some more pile work and fetch work.

I want to get the most out of this winter and want him to be ready for more intense training and work in the spring.
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#1758741 - 02/13/09 07:15 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: ironrangegemneye]
FCspringer Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Alexandria Lakes Area MN
Hi guy's new to this forum. Haveing fun finding my way around abit but I will add that those books for the Spaniels and Dob's books and tapes work very well. I used allot of them training for field trials, and they polish a dog nicely. But be carefull with some of the ecollar stuff and take your time if you are not familure with collar training. Iron Range Are you familare with Place board training? It is a great tool for the winter for excersise,hand comands, control,delivery,steadyness,and retrieving.

When you think you are smarter then your dog ask yourself "who cleans up who's doodoo"
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#1834545 - 04/06/09 02:12 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
MuleShack Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 2822
Loc: South Metro
Originally Posted By: 311Hemi
da_chise, I would strongly recommend the "Training the Pointing Labrador" by Julie Knutson, even though you may not have purchased a pointing lab. It is a good book for ANY retriever.

This book is will cover everything from before the puppy all the way to advanced training that many will not do. I think it would be a GREAT book for someone new to training as explain what is going on in a dogs head and gets you to understand what your doing and why. Not many books out there that do this....at least that I have read.


Just wanted to follow up on this post with some questions. Sometimes it is tough to buy a book on line and know what you are getting. i found 2 books that look somewhat identical. One is called "TRAINING THE POINTING LABRADOR" (Hardcover)by JULIE KNUTSON (Author) and the other one is "The Pointing Labrador" [ILLUSTRATED] (Paperback) by Julie Knutson (Author), Paul Knutson (Author). The second one is twice as much maybe cause it has pictures? Which one would be better for the beginner (not as dogs go in general, but for training purposes for both myself and the wife) are they basically the same book but with pictures on the second one? The first one doesn't have any description on line. Anyhelp wba and thanks in advance.

We've got a Chololate Female lined up for mid May to take home at 7 weeks and want to get our ducks in a row before we get her.
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#1834769 - 04/06/09 07:58 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: MuleShack]
lenny7 Offline
HSOList.com Family

Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 224
Loc: Savage
Originally Posted By: MuleShack
i found 2 books that look somewhat identical. One is called "TRAINING THE POINTING LABRADOR" (Hardcover)by JULIE KNUTSON (Author) and the other one is "The Pointing Labrador" [ILLUSTRATED] (Paperback) by Julie Knutson (Author), Paul Knutson (Author). The second one is twice as much maybe cause it has pictures? Which one would be better for the beginner (not as dogs go in general, but for training purposes for both myself and the wife) are they basically the same book but with pictures on the second one? The first one doesn't have any description on line. Anyhelp wba and thanks in advance.


I don't have either book, but based on the description in the first post of this thread,
Quote:
-Training the Pointing Labrador by Julie Knutson:
This is Julie’s new book that was just released this year and adds much more info than her original book (The Pointing Labrador).


it sounds like "Training the Pointing Lab" is what you want.
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#1834828 - 04/06/09 08:23 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: lenny7]
herm Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 157
Loc: Sauk Rapids
Lenny7 is correct. Training the Pointing Lab is her new book. (The other one is no longer in print and that is why it is extremely expensive.) The second book is available at her Web site. I have read it almost twice - as my family just picked up our first Pointing Lab this weekend.

I am THE DEFINITION of Newbie when it comes to PLs/hunting dogs
I borrowed the first book from a friend and read it. It helped convince me a PL was the dog for us. After we found a pup (with help from her first book and several months of research)I bought her new book. It's better than the first because she writes about "Hank" - and everything you need/want/can do to train him to be all he can be. She starts with Puppy Research and takes you through everything from an upland dog to water training to Double Ts, etc. (If we can accomplish half the stuff she covers, I will be ecstatic!)

My breeder also highly recommended it. And as my wife notes, the book already has become "my bible." We're literally on Day 3 with our PL and I've already re-read parts as I try to follow her suggestions and work with our kids to do the same.

If you go with a PL, I think this is a Must-Have item.

Now, off to "The Walk" for the second time! (read the book; you will know what I mean.)

And, yes, labs chew a lot...and eveything. (Told you I was a newbie!) smile

...If the boss asks, this was being done for research purposes....
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#1834841 - 04/06/09 08:32 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: herm]
setterguy Offline

HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 2290
Loc: Forest Lake, MN
IF, I mean IF you can find it, Do it right, do it yourself by Len Jenkins is the best pointer guidebook I've ever read, and I have read a lot. Sometimes you can find a used copy on Amazon or E bay...Very good book. Len teaches you how to tailor your training to each dog, instead of tailoring the dog to the training.


Edited by setterguy (04/06/09 08:32 AM)

The more people I meet, the more I like my dogs

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#1835912 - 04/06/09 06:56 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: herm]
MuleShack Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 2822
Loc: South Metro
Thanks for the clarification guys and the info. I will go after the new book.

Our lab will not be a pointer but still sounds like it would be a good book to use from puppy going forward.
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#1962651 - 07/30/09 11:40 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: MuleShack]
pureinsanity Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 3854
Loc: Under A Rock
any of the training books by Richard Wolters is a great way to train your dog!

My father has used it, I have used it and so have friends. Come out with the best dogs you could ask for if you do what this book says..

I specifically used water dog by Richard. But most of his books are relatively the same.

nick
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#1986400 - 08/23/09 07:58 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: pureinsanity]
Bowfin Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 564
Loc: Duluth
May I suggest going to the Game Fair in Anoka each August. I don't know when you have so many "expert" trainers at your disposal all at once. Advice and demonstration seminars on everything from pointers, retrievers to coon hounds. This isn't a replacement for a good book or DVD program but why pass a chance to consult with many experts and you can bring your dog also. I went both weekends this year.
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#2044394 - 10/24/09 06:39 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Bowfin]
march brown Offline
IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 28
Loc: MN
I have a 10 month old english setter, Decoverly line. Hips and elbows are good. My question is this, the vet was hesitant to remove rear dew claws at this point. Is this wierd? Seems like it shouldn't be an issue.
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#2066171 - 11/16/09 01:46 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: march brown]
Sutty Offline
HotspotOutdoors Specialist

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 1268
Loc: Rosemount, MN
Originally Posted By: march brown
I have a 10 month old english setter, Decoverly line. Hips and elbows are good. My question is this, the vet was hesitant to remove rear dew claws at this point. Is this wierd? Seems like it shouldn't be an issue.


You may get better results creating a new post for this as this thread is geared towards training.
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#2104216 - 12/16/09 07:10 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Sutty]
Sutty Offline
HotspotOutdoors Specialist

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 1268
Loc: Rosemount, MN
I read the pointer training book by Bill Tarrant. I am reading a second one from him now. I like the author, the training is done without using a shock collar which I appreciate.
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#2158228 - 01/21/10 11:59 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Sutty]
FCspringer Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Alexandria Lakes Area MN
Have been gone for awhile, but love some new features Rick, this is one of the best post i have seen started. Hope it does not stray off coarse. FCS

When you think you are smarter then your dog ask yourself "who cleans up who's doodoo"
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#2310845 - 07/12/10 11:01 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
Capt'nMorgan Offline
HSOList.com Family

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 204
Loc: mn
I'm buying my first dog and was going to post about training mat'l, then came across this posting. lots of good info here, Thanks. one more question are these books for just training for hunting or is there also obiedience training info in there also?
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#2311554 - 07/13/10 09:44 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Capt'nMorgan]
870Express Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 158
Loc: south central mn
All retriever books will have a formalized obedience section before advanced training. If not looking for a hunting dog, I'd go to your local library and pick up a book that suits you, ton of dog training material out there from puppy to obedience.

should have been a cowboy
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#2312402 - 07/14/10 11:24 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 870Express]
Capt'nMorgan Offline
HSOList.com Family

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 204
Loc: mn
It's a GSP so it gonna be a hunter, was just wondering it there is obedience training it also. Thanks
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#2321842 - 07/28/10 03:30 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Capt'nMorgan]
Rick Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Developer

Registered: 11/04/99
Posts: 13605
Loc: Great ol' US of A
Obediance training should be your foundation for any advanced training.

"Come", "hup", "stay", "heel" and "no" training should be started witin 1 week of owning your puppy. Let them have a lot of fun first. Usually start obediance training as soon as they recognize their name. The training method will vary depending on the age, breed and temperament of your dog. If they're young pups a couple fun filled training sessions of 10 to 15 minutes per day is more than enough to start.

Where ever you go there you are. smile
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#2325182 - 08/02/10 09:01 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Rick]
shawn1982 Offline
HSOShow.com Family

Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 107
Loc: Hutchinson, MN
Great forum guys!!! One question though... I have a 14 month gsp and am really starting to get into the hardcore training now and getting him in shape for this year. He is very good about obedience. he comes, sits, stays all that good stuff. I noticed all the books listed on here were from 07'. Are there any current up to date books out there. I am pulling towards getting "Wing and Shot" by Robert Whele. But if there are more up to date ones i would be interesed in looking in to them as well.. Thank You!
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#2335371 - 08/17/10 02:13 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: shawn1982]
Meat-Run Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 2534
Loc: Any town U.S.A.
Another great list of educational material you can use are the Gun Dog brand DVD's, you can find them at most retail stores such as the big "C", FF and just or at huntingtrixdotcom. They have everything from puppy training to Richard Walters Train Retrievers and Steadiness on Point I find them very well produced.

mr

Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit"
-Vincent Lombardi
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#2607840 - 06/21/11 07:58 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Meat-Run]
srfishin15 Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 304
Loc: Sauk Rapids, MN
I have a two year old yeallow lab that is recovering from an ACL tear,broken tibia, then a loose screw on the plate from the surgery. She is a pheasant and upland dog but I'd like to get into duck hunting this fall. Once she's healed I plan to start a little bit of training for the waterfowl hunting i plan to do. Is there a good book or other resource that can explain how to train and/or "add" commands so she can be used to duck hunt as well as upland hunt?
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#2609741 - 06/23/11 09:16 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: srfishin15]
eckum54 Offline
HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 97
Loc: Plymouth MN
Originally Posted By: srfishin10
I have a two year old yeallow lab that is recovering from an ACL tear,broken tibia, then a loose screw on the plate from the surgery. She is a pheasant and upland dog but I'd like to get into duck hunting this fall. Once she's healed I plan to start a little bit of training for the waterfowl hunting i plan to do. Is there a good book or other resource that can explain how to train and/or "add" commands so she can be used to duck hunt as well as upland hunt?


I like Tom Dokken's book Retriever Training...some of the items needed are little spendy or tricky to own since I live in an apartment but if you improvise a bit you should be fine.
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#2609989 - 06/24/11 09:09 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: eckum54]
srfishin15 Offline
Sr IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 304
Loc: Sauk Rapids, MN
I think the local library has that so i will probably check it out there first before i buy it, but thank you ill definately give it a look.
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#2646757 - 08/24/11 05:11 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Rick]
Brocster Offline
IceLeaders.com Family

Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 33
Loc: Scott County
Originally Posted By: Rick
Obediance training should be your foundation for any advanced training.

"Come", "hup", "stay", "heel" and "no" training should be started witin 1 week of owning your puppy. Let them have a lot of fun first. Usually start obediance training as soon as they recognize their name. The training method will vary depending on the age, breed and temperament of your dog. If they're young pups a couple fun filled training sessions of 10 to 15 minutes per day is more than enough to start.


+1

I have been working on my lab for two years now, and I often turn to YouTube, DU or similar sites online. There are some great dedicated drills explained and demonstrated. Great resource for quick tips or dedicated drills.

DU actually has an app for the Iphone with dedicated videos for retriever training.

Converted deer hunter addicted to birdin'
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#2677441 - 10/16/11 02:01 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: 311Hemi]
HuNTiNg_FaNaTiC Offline
Hello I'm New

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 1
Loc: Willmar,
I have a 16 month old yellow lab and for some reason he does not like getting into the back of my truck into his crate. Even when he knows we are going out hunting, its still very seldom that he will jump in. He just lays down on the ground and won't move. I feel like I have tried everything including treats and pheasant wings. I want him to naturally get excited and jump up. Its puting a hurtin on hunting days. Any suggestions? I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

"Birds or no birds, deer or no deer, hunting is still hunting, and I sure wont shed a tear."
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#2682010 - 10/24/11 07:48 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: HuNTiNg_FaNaTiC]
Rick Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Developer

Registered: 11/04/99
Posts: 13605
Loc: Great ol' US of A
You're better off getting a dog ramp or hand loading and unloading him if the jump is at tailgate level. It can prevent spme health issues down the road.

If you insist on wanting him to jump up I suggest crate training him on the ground first. That should always be a pleasant place for him and don't overdo how long he has top stay in it. A treat and a chew bone in the crate can help.

Without seeing your dog and knowing more about how you and he interact it's a good first step.

Where ever you go there you are. smile
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#2705474 - 11/27/11 08:41 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Rick]
jigginjim Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4272
Loc: Buffalo, MN, USA
Wife bought a lab mix from humain society, she is 8 months old nice but has no training. But will run after a few tools. Come,sit, got some of the down mode going, and starting to get into the kennel-up part. I guess I need to get her into a big dog train program. may need to find something around Buffalo area.

The little kid your take fishing today, could be the one taking you fishing years from now.

You snuff 'em, I'll stuff 'em, Jiggin Jims Taxidermy
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#2949670 - 11/21/12 09:46 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: jigginjim]
Ufatz Offline
Sr HSO Family

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 3557
Loc: Extreme NW MN
I'll bet you can do most of what you need in the way of training by yourself.....IF you have some time. Sounds like you have a nice little dog and it appears you already HAVE some basic training done. Find a good video or get your hands on a decent book. I'm sure the guys here can reccomend something for you....it has been a long time since I looked at one and I know there are a LOT of them out there now.
Repetition. Firmness. Patience. It CAN be fun and enjoyable for you and for your little pal.

If chief Joseph had really said all he is alleged to have said he would have had no time to be chief.
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#3035162 - 02/27/13 02:34 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Wormdrowner]
Ole #1 Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 1054
Loc: Waite Park
Originally Posted By: Wormdrowner
Thanks for sharing. Wish I would have know about this site while I was looking for a dog, I sure would have had some questions for you guys. I wanted a good Grouse dog and a fishing buddy, anyway, I ended up with a British Yellow female. A friend recommened the Wolter's books, and I pretty much followed those to the letter. Don't know if this is an antiquated book by today's standards, but she has turned into everything I could have hoped for (inspite of my training). Have heard alot about the (Pointing Labrador) books, would that be worth reading even though i'm not interested in trying to bring that out of her.


IMO, Wolters is the Einstein of training labs and would be #1 on my list. I followed his books to a T and ended up with the best trained dog I've ever had the pleasure to hunt with.
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#3042149 - 03/09/13 07:01 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: uplander]
monstermoose78 Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Specialist

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 2052
Loc: Princeton
I need a book for labs starting with puppy training please help?


Edited by monstermoose78 (03/09/13 07:02 PM)

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#3042184 - 03/09/13 08:29 PM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: monstermoose78]
Todd Caswell Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: Brainerd, MN
I recommend a video called training a retriever puppy by Bill Hillman followed up by the Fowl Dawg Videos by Rick Skawski of Milaca MN.. Can't go wrong with this set up, if followed you will have a dog that almost all of your blind mates will envy..
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#3046006 - 03/15/13 07:51 AM
Re: Dog Training Material & Information [Re: Todd Caswell]
kentuck_ike Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors.com Family

Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 338
Loc: SE MN
We have a dog training seminar coming in just over 1 month. Greg Fryar is a great down to earth trainer. It is called "Beginner Gun Dog" but it is meant for dogs of all ages that need a little help. Most issues are corrected by going back to the beginning.

If you know someone who might be interested or you have a hunting buddy who should be interested feel free to pas this info a long.

For more info you can email me at Kentucky_ike@yahoo.com


Thanks, Ben
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